Arsenal controversy leaves us needing law change: ‘Corners don’t have to be stupid’ | OneFootball

Pretty much everybody agrees that the West Ham ‘goal’ v Arsenal being disallowed was the right decision. But what now?

Thanks for your mails. It’s been a busy couple of days. Mail us at theeditor@football365.com

It was a foul; but can we talk about VAR?

It is a foul on the keeper; it just is. End of. Yes, Arsenal have gotten away with this against United, and Chelsea, and Villa, and on, and on, and on. Several wrongs don’t mean a decision shouldn’t be correct. As much as Rich, Caroline, and many others have been absolute bloody loons, if you’re not upholding the laws because of spite against Arsenal then just go home.

Keepers are treated differently as they are able to catch the ball. Other players aren’t able to do that. Jostling in a semi contact sport means the stronger player wins the header or blocks the shot and that was the intent when the league codified the sport. Mildly nudging the arm of a player trying to catch a ball does significantly impair what they can legally achieve.

But as F365 so succinctly put in 16 Conclusions, I’m hopeful that we are getting a consensus that VAR will not fix this.

What the boffins call “Creeping Normalcy”, which is the natural and utterly inevitable effect of not putting on strong sanctions for grappling (or time wasting, or diving, or everything bad in modern football), means we’ll always get different emotional reactions at the end of the year versus the start, and definitely year on year interpretation differences. So outside of consistency, which is both an impossible goal, and also fundamentally disempowers the ref on the field to manage behaviours, we need to talk about how we want VAR to work.

We have been expressly told that VAR will only intervene if there is a perceived error by the on-field official; that some controversies have not been deemed an error because the ref did not see ‘x’ occur on the field, he only saw ‘y’. This is what they mean by statements akin to the VAR will not re-ref the game. As we also all know, this stance is categorically not uniformly adhered to. I think it likely we can all think of examples of both instances occurring to our teams. To that end, if VAR is to stay, clubs and fans need to understand what its remit is. Should it, or should it not, get involved. 17 replays suggests it should not, in the current interpretation.

If it should be getting involved, the second issue is what happened in West Ham and Arsenal. By awarding the goal, the ref has made no on-field judgement on the sheer volume of grappling Arsenal have done in that corner.

As is clear on both the video and the stills available, Mosquera is almost on the floor but is gripping with all his might the shirt of Pablo, and pulling him down; Gabriel is also using both arms to hold Pablo. Prior to the ball getting whipped in there’s literally images of Pablo being in a headlock. Rice and Odegaard each have their arms locked around the opposition; There’s also one other player, who also has both arms wrapped around a West Ham player. They are four infringements in the box against West Ham, committed by 5 players, and one infringement against Arsenal by the aforementioned player who was being fouled themselves.

Having read the laws, the outcome here is not which infraction came first. The analysis would be which is the more serious (eg a handball occurs at the same time as red card challenge, or a foul occurs at same time as player racially abuses someone etc. Or for example, VVD being Pickford-ed by that imbecile whilst offside. PGMOL later admitted that his being offside first was a ludicrous on field decision). There is nothing in the laws of the game about time-order.

Now usually the endless grappling by Arsenal, which is blatantly more frequent, and tactically orchestrated than other sides, is let go because the VAR has a cop out of ‘the ref has not made an on-field decision’. Here, no such barrier to analysis exists. We don’t need to compare the level of grappling against other games. The ref made no decision; VAR created a scenario where time has stopped.

We can’t be guided by whether the keeper caught, or did not catch the ball, as a) the situation against Wolves proves a catch isn’t guaranteed, b) the player competing with the keeper is being fouled by two players, c) several players who could reasonably also contest the ball are being fouled, and d) play has been brought back to before that point anyway.

Is over-riding the goal fair; Yes, easily and absolutely. 16 Conclusions says a penalty is uncalled-for and from what I can gauge there’s nothing in the Laws or PGMOL interpretations that validates that. West Ham have an attacking corner and at least four of their players are being fouled by five players illegally trying to gain an advantage, which is very much the more serious offence.

And I have zero doubts that if that was awarded, then Arsenal fans would be incensed. Because that individual situation is being reviewed in a different context to any of their examples of Arsenal players being held in other set pieces. Those examples are officiated by the man in black gauging what is consistent, and now we are creating an environment where the law-book is king.

This has all been covered before, by Jonathan Wilson, who correctly foresaw that if a dodgy challenge happens in your own box, and leads to a breakaway attack, in a scenario where the run up to every goal is going to be assessed by VAR, then it’s in your own interest to win a corner instead of score a goal that risks you having conceded a penalty. We all laughed until that literally happened.

The VAR zealots then cheered the introduction of a ruling that said any handball in the area would lead to a penalty, and then within weeks of that guidance Bernaldo Silva’s ‘natural sillhouette’ accidentally punched a ball onto Trent AA’s swinging arm as he ran, and the officials were left to try and figure that out.

Well here we are again. VAR reviewing one thing has opened a Pandora’s box. You’re left trying to explain why five Arsenal players literally bear-hugging people to the ground shouldn’t be a penalty. The arguments for that are either ‘well it happened second’ which is immaterial, or just ‘vibes’, which if we are okay with…. why the f*** do we have VAR?

All this nonsense is prompting such wild dialogue online because it fundamentally challenges our ability to put a fair narrative on a situation. It’s uncomfortable because the VAR zealots are trying to justify what clearly isn’t ‘a right answer’ of ‘goal over-ruled, advantage Arsenal’.

…Could there be a more appropriate way to decide this dull arm-wrestle of a season than via Stockley Park? Frankly that’s why I’ve always wanted VAR to be binned – it’s fundamentally changed the way we watch our beloved game: there’s no immediacy, there’s no joy without the fear that VAR will snatch it away from you. All those iconic football moments – AGUERRRRROOO – Michael Thomas in ’89 (up for grabs now!) – they wouldn’t exist without the hint of delay – was Ballotelli in an offside positon? Did Alan Smith stray offside? Whatever..

Do we want the title to boil down to three blokes huddled over a tv screen deciding on intent or what not? Cos that is what we’ve just had. It’s not sport, it’s barely even entertainment. It’s laughable, like deciding Elections on ‘hanging chads’ (topical reference there for the younger readers). We can’t allow this to continue or there will be no joy in football at all. Dan, (clearly it was a foul – but there are loads of these per game that are unpunished) London

It was a foul…and VAR not the issue

I’m an AFC Wimbledon fan with zero skin in the West Ham v Arsenal game, and my take on the controversy at the end… it was a foul on Raya. Clear as day. The defender put his arm across Raya and held his arm as he was jumping to catch the ball. That’s not the grey area people are making it out to be, that’s an explicitly obvious, direct interference with the goalkeeper that led directly to a goal. Foul given, goal disallowed, correct decision.

I get the frustration around consistency – the general grappling and wrestling at corners is practically a contact sport within the sport at this point (with Arsenal the worst perpetrators). But to say the goal should’ve been given yesterday because Bayindir was fouled vs Arsenal and it didn’t get given is ridiculous. IMO that was a bad call, and maybe ironically led to conversations around protecting keepers at corners that led to yesterday’s decision. This clearly doesn’t mean the foul yesterday shouldn’t have been given to even things up though.

But it’s the anti-VAR noise that comes after every big decision really irks me. People in the mailbox (and editors of this fine site) calling it a farce and demanding that it gets scrapped. Pointing out the inconsistency of this call vs Bayindir vs Arsenal, or the Martinez hair pull vs Leeds compared to other recent examples just shows that subjective judgement is still part of the refereeing. I don’t want AI automated, robotic decisions. I just want the best possible tools to help humans make the correct decisions. Which is what VAR is and does.

Subjective calls made by humans will always have fine margins which don’t always stack up. Get rid of VAR and we’re back to referees making those same marginal calls, except with less help and no recourse. The margin for error doesn’t disappear, it just gets wider, and calling for VAR to be abolished because it’s not perfect is churlish and short-sighted. The same people demanding VAR gets scrapped would be the first to hammer refs when they inevitably made bigger, more obvious errors without it. If you’d be happy to accept a referee’s decision without VAR because “thems the breaks” then you should probably do the same for referees with VAR rather than having a hissy fit when they don’t. Jack (up the Dons) Tooting

It was a foul…but also a save

It was a foul… ok..

BUT…. (apart form the 6 other fouls/penalties all over the box from Trossard/Rice etc)

Correct me if I’m wrong but the keeper saved it?

If a striker gets a shot away and the defender takes him out, it’s not a foul coz he got a shot away..? Isn’t that the seeming rule?

The keeper saved it, the defender cleared it and then the goal game from the next phase of play?

I understand why it was given as a foul but its def 1 rule in the box/for keepers and another elsewhere for attacking players.

See Cole Palmer literally just falling over near the corner flag 4 times in a row and getting the freekick every time, as its an easy freekick to give.

As long as refs buy the buy the bullsh*t and reward the cheating then this will happen for ever.

And as long as they don’t punish the UFC in the box at corners then it will happen for ever.

Stop the warnings and 3min time waste chat before every corner and freekick in the box – The players know the rules, they don’t need the chat.. They need Pen or Freekick.

(The problem being it will always be a defensive free kick won’t it, it’s the easier decision to give..) Al – LFC – Got no answers but it’s not my job!

Just make a rule to stop the grappling

I’m noticing with a mix of horror and tired resignation that a Larry David or maybe a Victor Meldrew, awakens in people of a certain age, my age, ok, me.

A disclaimer to begin, I still remember how the past was it’s own shade of a bit sh*t, so I’m not harking back to a golden era or making anything that wasn’t so great, great again.

Anyway,

Back when there was jumpers for goalposts, we’d have seen that the wrestling at corners wasn’t working and maybe have made up a rule, like, only the goalie, 4 defenders and 4 attacking players allowed in the box for the corner? Corners have become a barely refereeable part of the game, even in rugby, you can’t be manhandling before the ball is in play. Corners don’t need to be stupid.

While we’re at it, temporarily sub out the goalie if he needs treatment like a blood substitution, no delays, introduce time outs or get on with it.

Ask less of var, be less disappointed. Dermot in Kildare

This is the chaos that Arsenal wanted

Congratulations Arsenal – to see the league decided by a VAR decision taking nearly 5 minutes to reach the correct decision that Raya had been obstructed on a corner summed up where Arsenal have taken us. They have worked on this ‘Chaos’ Theory all season, their dead ball coach has them holding, pushing, impeding every player in the box.

Yes Raya was fouled but we saw 3 West Ham players fouled before the ball reached him and yet somehow VAR have ignored the incidents. How have we reached this point were all 3 fouls that would normally be called anywhere outside of the 18 yard box are glossed over. Last week Gusto was rightly awarded a penalty against him for a blatant shirt pull on a Forest player in the penalty area and yet as Chelsea fans we watch that sequence yesterday. And that’s not to mention Trossard’s action at Stamford Bridge nudging Sanchez under the ball at a corner for Arsenal to score.

Are Arsenal the only one’s to do it, nope. But they have become the experts at it and will now lift the trophy courtesy of such methods.

FIFA and IFAB need to address the situation, because we cannot have the Laws of the game being applied in different ways depending on what part of the pitch they are committed. It’s why so many neutrals are ‘pi**ed off’ with yesterday. It’s the culmination of watching Arsenal being rewarded for blatant fouling and knowing their coach has worked out that if they create enough chaos it becomes impossible to officiate. P Didi (not)

Arsenal, VAR and a thought experiment

It’s the last minute of the World Cup semi final.

England get knocked out when Jordan Pickford spills the ball from a corner, with one player’s arm across his shoulders and another player pulling his shirt.

Right decision? Ben, AFC (I do wish it hadn’t come down to a VAR decision but it’s disingenuous to pretend the ref made the wrong call in such a huge moment)

To summarise that Arsenal-VAR situation

Just thought I’d summarise the Raya foul situation as follows:

1. It’s a foul. The goal shouldn’t stand.

2. Arsenal have gotten away with a fair bit of rough play in the box during set pieces this season.

3. Point 2 doesn’t make point 1 any less true

4. The Saliba – Bayandir tussle at Old Trafford on the first day of the season, is NOT the same as the Raya situation (Raya has his left arm pulled down to prevent him from making an easy catch of the ball, Saliba doesn’t prevent Bayandir from moving his arms up, Bayandir just fluffs the catch but agreed that Saliba does some obstructing)

5. City have got away with a few dodgy decisions this season too(Dias away at Forest, Bernardo and Nunes recently too)

Now that Arsenal are through this tricky period (a period where I thought the tram would drop points), the boys should see this through, but my pessimism/ years of trauma following previous bottling, is making it hard to get too excited yet. Izzy (it does like they really could do it this time…), London

There is no conspiracy and never has been

Haven’t written into the mailbox for a while, mainly because of Liverpool just being a bit meh. Not bad enough for me to get too worked up, and certainly not good enough to get excited about.

Still reading though, and many people just need to chill out a bit. Yesterday was foul on Raya. No if, no buts, no argument. Clear cut. Good decision by VAR, like it or not.

What I do find hilarious is the constant narrative shifting. Now that Arsenal are winning the league, there is of course a big conspiracy, based around the “London press” that means VAR will favour Arsenal. This despite Arsenal fans moaning constantly for the last 3 years that everyone was biased and the conspiracy was against them.

Both seasons Liverpool won the league there was a conspiracy to favour Liverpool (sorry LiVARpool) because for some reason no one ever explained, the Premier League was determined they should win the league.

Then of course Man City and their 115 charges have previously “bought the league” and all the VAR decisions supposedly favoured them.

The hilarious thing being that many of these conspiracy theories stem from Man United fans, who, according to all rival fans at the time, had referees in their back pocket and all the refs always favoured them.

This is why fundamentally VAR will never work. Because even when it intervenes and makes the correct decision, people still scream favouritism and conspiracy. Football fans are almost unanimously, completely unable to look at things objectively. Because deep down, every single person reading this knows that if the game had been 0-0 and it had been Arsenal who had that exact same goal disallowed in the 90th minute, every Arsenal fan would be ranting about conspiracies and everyone who doesn’t like Arsenal would be saying it was the correct decision.

There is no conspiracy. Sometimes refs get it right, sometimes they get it wrong. That’s human nature, but funnily enough all the refs are not all plotting against your team. It doesn’t even out over the course of a season, because that’s not how probability works. Sometimes you get more decisions, sometimes you don’t. But that’s a chance, not because of sinister plotting at Premier League HQ. Mike, LFC, Dubai

The Arsenal stat you should remember

Just a reminder that Arsenal have conceded zero penalties this season. Zip. Nada. Nil

Just a thought for everyone to mull over again after seeing another defensive masterclass from the Gunners. Disgruntled RSA

The usual plea for consistency…

Just read the first draft of mails and Rich was right.

Wdym consistency? We’ve been crying out for consistency for years. Martinelli double yellow in the same phase of play. Forgetting to draw the offside line for Brentford’s equaliser in a title race that was decided by 2 points. Rice sent off for getting kicked by Veltman. Kovavic yellow for attempting to split Odegaard’s ankle into two. I can go on. If there’s anyone here who should be talking about consistency, it’s definitely us. Please, stop the hypocrisy!!

Everyone is talking about the fouls in the box but no one seems to spot that Kai Havertz is shoved to the ground first by Soucek. David Seaman gives the best breakdown of the foul in my opinion. You can see Raya clearly attempts to jump to catch the ball and the hand and shirt pulling clearly impedes him. The difference with the Bayindir one at the start of the season is he never attempts to jump. He also started off in the wrong position. In attempting to correct, all the momentum from the shoving (including ManUtd players) carried him away from the ball. If Raya for example was back peddling here instead of jumping, then it doesn’t get given. It just looks like crowding.