England players like Rice and Anderson ‘overhyped’; that’s not Tuchel’s fault | OneFootball

There’s still plenty of blame being sent the way of Thomas Tuchel, but what can he do with these England players?

What did you expect Thomas Tuchel to do with those players?

So there it is… another lacklustre performance by England’s incredibly highly paid superstars. Turns out you can’t win the World Cup on vibes, PASHUN, and a couple of big game players (Jude/Harry).

Tuchel was pretty damning against Norway, and rightly so. Jude says “whatever”. Well here’s your “whatever” Jude, its a one way ticket home. Maybe you should listen to your manager?

So what was Tuchel supposed to do after the England goal? Request his team of superstars do something they have never demonstrated an ability to do… control a game against a high level opponent? England didnt need PASHUN, they didnt need VIBEZ, they needed courage. Not Terry Butcher style courage… they needed “put your foot on the ball, play the right pass, don’t panic” type courage. The type of courage that wins World Cups.

Every single pundit after the game is questioning England’s tactics after Gordon’s goal. But what was the alternative? Ask the players to do something their star midfielder clearly disagreed with after the Norway game? Ask them to do something I have never seen an England team do in my entire lifetime?

In retrospect….perhaps Dan Burn being your star sub may be an indicator of your standards in general. I wonder what Cole Palmer was up to while the game was on?

England have good footballers but England are not good at football. Brian Sheehy

…New manager, some new players but same old England. The criticism of Gareth was always defensive football and getting knocked out as soon as England played a decent team. Same old story.

Were England that good at any point in the tournament?

Could easily have lost DR Congo, which would have been one of their worst ever humiliations. Scraped through due to some Kane brilliance.

Beat Mexico in a match that was massively overhyped. That Mexico squad is probably 12-15th in the Premier League at best. Yes they were at home, but England should expect to win games like that. The pundits were discussing it like they’d beaten 1970 Brazil.

Rode their luck massively against Norway, who are a good team with some superstars but are by no means elite.

Then come up against a side with genuine World Cup hopes and they lose. And lose badly. They were awful, scrappy in the first half, barely managed a shot on goal, then defended like they were Barnsley who found themselves a goal up against Manchester City, rather than against a team they are supposedly equal to.

Same old England. Great in qualifying, some outstanding players but for some reason completely incapable of beating an elite side.

When was the last time England won a knockout match against a team who were considered one of the favourites? A team that was in the top 4 of the favourites at the start of the tournament?

It was 1966. In 60 years, England have not managed to beat a pre-tournament favourite. Morocco, Bulgaria, Croatia and others have done it, but England simply can’t.

England have some great footballers but until they fix that mentality, they will forever be a B-tier international side. Mike, LFC, Dubai

…It was inevitable. Not the loss to Argentina but the reactions of English pundits and fans in the aftermath of the defeat. Everyone is happy to lay the blame in the foot of the manager. Tuchel ceded the control of the game, he made defensive substitutions and handed Argentina the initiative, he should have made positive changes and gone on the attack etc etc

For me herein lies the problem with English media, pundits and fans. Always laying the blame at someone else’s feet and not having the guts to criticise the players.

Parking the bus is not a wrong strategy. Many a teams have parked the bus and gone on to beat the strongest and biggest teams. Teams have won championships while playing this strategy. The problem is that the English players did not execute the plan properly. They suffered lapses in concentration leading to goals. Stones did the whole head injury bit a minute before the winner when there was nothing i mean absolutely nothing wrong with him thinking it will break the Argentine momentum. Well it works both ways. It broke his own concentration as well resulting in no one marking La Martinez. Pickford’s positioning for the equaliser was completely wrong resulting in him unable to even get close to the ball.

But you lot will choose to crucify the manager rather than the players. Spain can keep hold of the ball, they did not let France have a whiff at the goal because they have the technical players to do so. Rice and Anderson maybe good players but English players are overhyped immediately once they show some decent form.do they come even close to likes of Rodri and Fabian Ruiz when it comes to the technical ability?

And guess what Tuchel knew that. Even Southgate knew that. That is why they chose the tactic of parking the bus. Because they knew that English midfielders can not keep possession for 35 mins.England just don’t have the quality of players to play that way.

But of course why should the obvious issues be spoken about when there is perfect solution to lay the blame at the manager’s feet!! Swapnil, Mumbai P. S. You guys are the same when it comes to cricket as well.

…The wound is still fresh so it will sting for a while but, at the end of the day, the #2 ranked team in the world defeated the #4 ranked team. What will rankle most is that, for much of the game, we looked in it. But, as we see countless times in games both domestically and internationally, if you cede possession to the opposition, let alone one of the best teams in the world, eventually one of the opportunities will be converted. This “Custer’s Last Stand” approach eventually gets found out. The low block, “parking the bus” or whatever you want to call it, is a tactic that might win you a game or two, but not a trophy.

There will be plenty of blame to portion out but the die was cast years, if not decades before a ball was kicked. England simply does not breed players who are suited to tournament football. Our game is all blood and thunder but every tournament is played in the heat of summer. We simply cannot hold onto the ball and dictate play. We do not produce players like Rodri, Modric, Odegaard, Vitinha, etc. and when we do, we either don’t trust them (e.g. Scholes) or worse, don’t even select them (e.g. Foden).

Instead we stack the squad with strong, athletic specimens or attacking midfielders with neither the speed or skill to break the lines. Is it any wonder that the top EPL team’s midfielders are predominantly non-English?

The harsh reality is, we progressed as far (or maybe even further) as expected, and to have seriously thought that we could beat any of the three semi-finalists was optimistic to the point of delusional. It’s Groundhog Day, just every 2 years. Adidasmufc

(Anyone else see the irony in conceding a goal from a cross into the box stacked with defenders?)

…F***. I believed for a second there. Beautiful tactical work from Tuchel to bring about Gordon’s goal, beautiful work from Rogers and Gordon. I still have a good feeling for the future. The more English players playing abroad the better. Gordon and Bellingham are players we can build a team around.

With Southgate we over achieved. To win the cup we will have to over achieve.

It’s a lots about decent tactics, but the English seem to be emotional balsa wood. We’ve had the best tactical coaches we could possibly ever hope to get.

It’s pure supportive man management we need (plus tactics too). Southgate, Robson style. Closest I can think of is Jurgen Klopp.

Heavy Metal football please. Ian LFC Belgium

P.S. Twitter is so back (great stuff from Hugh Laurie, Gary Kasparov, Liam & Omid Djalili)

England players should not escape criticism

Clearly Tommy Turtle didn’t have what it takes to back up his “go down swinging” pre tournament fighting talk. So he has to take the blame. However – There are senior players on that pitch and bench that have been here before. At least Tommy can claim ignorance. What about Kane? Pickford? Henderson? Stones? How many times has this happened to them? And they just blindly make the same mistake, follow the same crap tactics without question and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory time and again.

Kane will get knighted when he retires. He will have the same honour as glorious winners like Daley Thompson, Steve Redgrave and Martin Johnson. For what? Zero domestic club honours. Zero national honours. Zero European club honours. Won the Bundesliga with Bayern Munich. Big whoop.

Scored a few goals against minnows. Played in 12 quarter finals or bigger for England. Scored 2 versus Ukraine in a QF, 2 pens and one other open play goal in the other 11. Bang average when it really matters. But he was the hero of our victory versus one of the congos. In the final 32. As Roy Keane would say “that’s your job man”. The fact that others weren’t doing theirs doesn’t make your achievement heroic.

As a country of sports lovers we bestow hero status and adulation on those with talent. We pray for them. Cheer them. And they receive the spoils that go with that lofty accolade. But winning for your country against others playing for theirs consistently and when it matters is really hard. It requires much more than talent. Mere mortals like I will never actually know what ingredient X actually might be. I just know when I see someone / a group that doesn’t have it. You need dedication to the cause and a steely focus and sense of the responsibility.

In a summer where we have seen the captain of one of our other national sports – who also has honours – fritter away his position by not understanding the discipline and focus required to represent us all and to carry our hopes – we got this. Supine acquiescence and finger crossing when faced with the ultimate opportunity.

We don’t deserve nice things. Johnno

…I get everyone blaming Tuchel for England’s loss last night and his substitutions confirm that when the pressure was on he decided that sitting back and defending against Messi was possible for 30 mins (it never was), but also let’s look at the players too.

Englands three a lions of this tournament (their 3 world class players) Rice, Bellingham and Kane, formed an axis to get England out of defence and up the pitch. The auxiliary players in defence and on both wings all played to their potential and in some cases beyond it for this level (Spence, Gordon and Rogers,) but did the 3 Lions?

At the most crucial moment Englands 3 world class players turned turtle and had their tummies tickled. Great players get on the ball and play when the pressure is at its greatest as it was last night, they turn games around, see what’s happening and say not tonight.

Englands 3 lions turned into lambs when it mattered most and to exonerate them from blame feels good but ignores the reality of what we saw on the pitch. Dave LFC

Why fans can know more than managers

I’m a reader of F365 and its mailbox since the end of the last century and an occasional contributor. In this time one of the common circles I’ve seen is a bunch of people criticising a manager for his decisions, then a whole load of other people saying ‘you think you know better than a professional football manager, that’s ridiculous’. When I’ve seen this response I’ve often thought about writing in saying, ‘ yes, this is actually very possible’, but never have. However, after seeing England’s predictable capitulation in the last 30 minutes, now seems like an appropriate time.

When England sat back after scoring – having been the better of two sides not playing brilliantly – everyone in the pub I was in said this is not the right approach.

When Tuchel brought Konsa on for Gordon everyone said that move has just made us less likely to win.

When Tuchel brought O’Reilly and (particularly) Burn on everyone said right ok we’re now likely to lose. We’ve absolutely told Argentina the momentum is yours.

It’s all very well being tall when you’re playing a game that’s tough because of the conditions but against a limited side slinging crosses into the box (even then on another day the bounce of the ball would have seen us lose).

But against Messi ‘s Argentina it’s not enough. We all said this is just an open invite for Argentina to make the final. And guess what, it was.

To return to the original point, as proved tonight, yes fans can know better than the manager.

Why? Because football management is a closed shop, open only to those who played the game professionally. While this may give them the chance to parrot things heard in dressing rooms, that is not enough to overcome the problem of footballers almost always lacking critical thinking skills and intelligence.

Following yet another disappointing – and in this case totally avoidable – exit, no doubt the FA will be thinking what do we do different to win the next tournament.

Well here’s an idea. How about appointing a manager who is clever rather than an ex-footballer? Ronnie Buzzard, Manchester

Not ready to move on from blaming Tuchel yet

It’s because we allowed a manager to leave [rightly in my opinion] who was able to cajole, coach, lead & galvanise one of the most talented squads in the world to within touching distance of the Euros/World Cup but could not instill the killer mentality to get over the line and ultimately performances regressed to the point that despite reaching the final of the 2024 Euros we were not fulfilling potential.

Instead of hiring a promising English coach we spent millions [money that smaller nations could never afford] to hire a foreign coach [wrongly in my opinion] that would get us over the line. And allow me to be more specific here.

A coach that would not sh1t himself when we’re 1-0 up against Argentina. A coach who would continue to attack an aging and panicked Argentina side when they’re at their most vulnerable. A coach who would ensure we terrorised Argentina at 1-0 up to the point they lose their discipline. A coach who would not park the bus at 1-0 and end the game with 6 defenders on the pitch. A coach would not bring Dan fucking Burn on with 15 minutes to go.

F*** you Thomas the Tw*t Engine 🚂*

*Apologies for the bad language Banjo, Prague

…Tuchel has cost us massively.

Imagine having one of the best squads available and seeing Konsa slinging crosses in with 5 minutes left and hitting the first man multiple times. While Saka gets no minutes.

James and O’Reilly playing in midfield before actual midfielders like Mainoo.

Harry Kane dead on his feet playing as defensive midfielder isn’t how you use the worlds deadliest finisher, and Toney/Rashford being given 4 minutes to save his arse is hilarious.

I was screaming at the TV for us to get out and close them way before Enzo’s equaliser, we were camped out between the pen spot and the D and the crosses from De Paul were causing havoc, only the post and Pickford saving us ! Get out, cut the supply off it’s really simple.

His whole demeaner screaming at players I don’t like. Coach properly, don’t berate people, it’s not the 80’s anymore.

Just quit, go take a club job somewhere. Gibbo (MUFC – down under)

…Well, that was a kick to the knackers.

I was sceptical when Tuchel was appointed, the “magic” that won Chelsea the champions league had faded however when the qualifying started and they dismantled team without conceding he won me over.

Now though, what the hell was that?!?! I cannot decide what is worse, the fact by the time Fernandez scored it was his 4th long distance shot, or it coming from the 427th short corner routine, and we didn’t get two man out for a single one of them.

The French and Spanish are ahead of us and I fear the Germans and Italians will return to the fold at the top of European football soon enough, while it has been fruitful, 2 finals and 2 semi’s, no pots to show for it, and that may have been our best chance.

Maybe they should get a bloke down the pub to stand next to the coach, à la a peasant whispering to the Roman emperor “you’re only human, stick Rashford and Watkins on and tell them to wait on halfway line and counter!”

Anyway Viva España. Do it for UEFA. EFCraig (glad everyone got to see Thomas Tuchel presents “David Moyes in a big game!”)

…If this was England and Tuchel’s masterplan, then the Harry Maguire omission makes even less sense. He was heading those crosses away from his couch all night. Dale (Wouldn’t have beaten Spain anyway) Denton

…Up at 6 for a lovely bike ride and a bit of reflection, back to hear Tuchel saying how he has a contact until after the Euros and he is looking forward to seeing it through. Buckle up for more of the same. This shines big, glaring light on the FA’s total incompetence, tying themselves to Tuchel was bizarre, the qualifiers were largely dull, a couple of decent wins (against limited opposition) and boom, he has a new contract. They (The FA) do this every time. They cannot possibly have looked at that last night and thought they were on the right track. I will never get my head around the whole sitting back business, especially with that set of players. At no point did we look in control of the situation, and 12% possession after we scored is an absolute joke and Tuchels answer was to load up the back line, his job was to change the mind set, he has failed. 2 more years, then the same outcome – in the meantime Pep will be snapped up and the chance of a truly great manager will slip by because the FA are useless.

Not sour grapes but slightly sour grapes how did Argentina get away with any of that in the first half? We all knew it was going to happen and the ref just let it go. Entirely predictable that the first card would go to an England player – and did VAR just not fancy looking at the two or three times and Argentinian player kicked out after a tackle? How’s about them elbows to the back of the head? Any other team does that it’s cardo’rama. I’m not into this conspiracy stuff but why does this always happen? Oh, they are just so passionate, bless them. They’ll get a fine for the political statement, that will be it. Maybe it’s time we turned into nasty bastards.

…Spain lead France 1-0. de la Fuente subs on Pedri, Williams, Torres and Merino. Wins 2-0.

England lead Argentina 1-0. Tuchel subs on Konsa, Burn and O’Reilly. Loses 1-2.

The contrast is stark. Sanjit (attack is the best form of defense) Randhawa, Kuala Lumpur

…He panicked. He s**t the bed. He bottled it. Whichever way you want to phrase it, when it counted, Tuchel wasn’t able to deal with the situation and succumbed to pressure. For a manager with a decade of experience at the highest level to just throw on more defenders and take away any attacking outlet, reeks of desperation and an inability to adapt in the moment. There is nothing he can do to prove he won’t fail again when it counts in the Euros, and so he has to be relieved of his position.

Throughout the tournament, I’ve said to those around me that the best teams play A-level football while England muddle along at GCSE level in terms of the strategy and game plan. While I still think that’s true, and there are multiple cultural reasons for it, last night wasn’t down to that, it was purely down to one man’s inability to perform at the required level. He practically forced Argentina (with Messi for god’s sake!) to attack England in any way they wanted. Unbelievable. Nilesh, Harrow

…I said from the beginning that it was never coming home. From the moment Tichel was appointed by the FA, prime tears were loading. The man is stubborn and fixated on his ways and nothing moves him. The whole World Cup has been a roller coaster for England, always living on the edge. His team selection was poor. He left key players behind, picked on players who are past their prime. Why pick Toney and Henderson and leave the likes of Wharton, Palmer and Foden? Henderson’s contribution was to break his arm!

The team reached this far because of the players and not the manager.

Why defend a one-goal lead against Argentina? Why pack the field with defenders? Saka and Mainoo could not even get one minute in the match!

It was hilarious seeing Dan Burn leading the line after Argentina went ahead.

If Tuchel stays in his job after this horror show, then the FA is made of serious jokers.

The worst managers in the World Cup are Tuchel and Deschamps. They cost their teams dearly.

The worst referees are the Uzbekistani who officiated Paraguay-France, and the French man who officiated Argentina-Egypt match. May they never be involved in any international tournaments again. Yiembe (Mombasa, Kenya)

…Good articles so far on F365. Although saying Tuchel got all his decisions and gambles right pre Argentina is wholly inaccurate. He got away with his decisions and gambles until this point thanks to the brilliance of the celebrated few. England have been very poor in the main against weaker opposition who didn’t have quality, and that would have been acceptable had they been able to play properly against teams less content to put 10 men behind the ball. Which didn’t happen.

Oh and calling Madueke a specialist anything is offensive.

Thanks. AS Camden

This is what happens when you manage on pre-loaded probabilities

Firstly, despite last night and my reticence in wanting to enjoy the Infantino x Trump rest in the first place, that was a fun tournament.

It was enjoyable because we are now into a fourth major tournament where we progress to the last few with a likeable team.

Secondly, last night was an unequivocal mistake but i think it comes from a flaw in the management methodology. The planning appears to be pre-loaded with an on field situation resulting in an action. What I mean by this is it’s as though IF the team are a goal up AND there is less than 45 minutes to play THEN we load ‘defensive configuration 1’ but IF we are a goal down AND there is 25 minutes to play THEN we load attacking configuration 2. Like basically strategy black jack driven by probability chains.

The problem with this is it doesn’t reflect the psychology of the match nor does it take into account the game plan of the opposition. If anything, England should said these fckrs are going to need to come onto us in late second half, so let’s spend ten minutes doing what they did in the first 25, go for the throats and make them feel like they’re going out. The game needed a step-it-up attitude to make Argentina feel they were about to be stomped. Instead pre-saved load out configuration ‘tortoise shell’ was wrong. But we didn’t have anything else in the locker.

The last 8 minutes suggested that panic introducing attackers was more effective than the defensive plan.

When we talk about the malaise in competition at this level we often talk about the lack of quality, but England have some exceptional players. The mindset is to win, of course, but Argentina’s mindset was to retain their trophy and beat everyone. They will revel in beating us while we celebrate winning.

So in short, no more probability-based set ups and a lot more desire to hear the lamentations of the opponent’s women. Only then will we be the conquerers of football. Alexander T

Southgate would never

I see many people are comparing Thomas Tuchel with Gareth Southgate and somehow still using it as another opportunity to diminish Southgate’s success. For all Southgate’s faults, I cannot imagine his England side responding to taking the lead in a World Cup semi-final as they did against Argentina.

Against Argentina, England scored before retreating into what was effectively a back 11 and stopped trying to play. From taking the lead until Argentina’s winner, England had just 12% possession with Tuchel himself admitted he got it wrong.

Southgate could absolutely be cautious, but his teams still carried attacking threat in the major matches people now use against him. Against Croatia in 2018, England scored after five minutes but went on to have 11 shots across the match. They created chances to extend the lead, including Harry Kane hitting the side-netting, before Croatia equalised.

Against Italy in 2021, England scored after two minutes and still recorded another five attempts afterwards. Was England too defensive that night? Absolutely. But they continued competing for 120 minutes and took the final to penalties.

Against Spain in 2024, England fell behind, equalised through Cole Palmer and continued pushing after Spain’s late winner. They finished with nine attempts against one of the best international sides of recent years and remained in the match until the final whistle.

Compare that with our game against Argentina: five shots in the entire match, only two on target, and almost complete surrender after going 1–0 up.

Southgate’s England did not always play thrilling football. His final tournament was often painful to watch and required patience, resilience and a well-stocked drinks cabinet. But he still reached another final and lost narrowly to an outstanding Spain side.

Additionally, it’s worth pointing out that Southgate inherited an England team humiliated by Iceland and turned it into one capable of reaching two finals, a World Cup semi-final and a quarter-final across four consecutive tournaments.

Tuchel inherited a team in very good health. Yet, so far, the performances have been poor, the use of England’s attacking talent has been questionable and his biggest tactical decision of the tournament ended with England effectively declaring at 1–0.

Southgate deserves criticism for the things he got wrong but those using Tuchel’s collapse against Argentina as another reason to attack him should take a good, hard look at themselves and put some respect on the waistcoat.