The record David Moyes needs to improve in his second spell with Everton | OneFootball

Coming out of the second international break of the 2025-26 season, Everton sit in a comfortable 8th place inn the Premier League Table, just 3 points off a Champions League position.

But the next fortnight presents two tough tests for the Toffees: beginning with a trip to the Etihad, where they’ll face Manchester City on Saturday afternoon, before hosting Thomas Frank’s Tottenham Hotspur the following weekend. It’s a chance for David Moyes to improve his paltry Everton record against the Premier League's “big six”.

In his 11-year spell as Everton manager from spring 2002 until the summer of 2013, David Moyes came up against “big six” opposition in the Premier League on 134 occasions.  In those matches, Everton won just 31 times, drawing 35, and losing 68, for an average points per game of 0.95.

His best year against these opponents was in 2010-11, when Everton picked up 19 points from a possible 36 against the “big six”, with five wins. His worst was in 2003-04 when the Toffees won just once. For a team that was constantly on the verge of breaking the glass ceiling to compete with the Premier League’s big boys, this record was often the difference maker.

Since returning to Everton last season, Moyes has faced “big six” opposition on eight occasions in the league. He earned his first win back in the Everton dugout against Tottenham at Goodison Park. Since then, he has only managed three draws against Liverpool, Manchester United, and Arsenal, while losing on four occasions, twice to Liverpool, and once each to Chelsea and Manchester City.

After a season when just four of the “big six” actually finished in the top half of the table, with Everton finishing above both Tottenham and Manchester United despite only landing in 13th place, the Premier League’s traditional power clubs are returning to top form again this season.

So once again, Everton’s hopes of potentially earning a European place, which can now happen with a finish of 7th or even 8th place, may hinge on results against these sides.

First up for Everton are Pep Guardiola’s Manchester City, who, after losing two of their first three Premier League matches of the season, are on a run of seven unbeaten in all competitions, sitting 3rd in the league.

It’s a slightly different Manchester City team than the one that dominated the Premier League for so many years. With several high-profile players leaving the Etihad over the summer, Pep Guardiola has adjusted his tactics slightly to suit the talent currently at his disposal, and so far it’s working.

He’s swapped the ball-playing ability of Ederson for the shot-stopping of Gianluigi Donnarumma, and Tijjani Reijnders has filled in for Kevin de Bruyne to complete the bulk of forward passes.

Guardiola appears to be favouring a slightly more direct approach than in years past. Erling Haaland and Jeremy Doku are both touching the ball less in the attacking third, but have also both nearly doubled their productivity per game from last season. For every one of his first nine seasons at Manchester City, Guardiola’s side held more possession than any other team in the Premier League. But so far this year, four teams are averaging more possession than his.

Everton will likely still opt for a defensive approach to earn a result at the Etihad, hoping to exploit the home side's frailties in defending against counter-attacks, which led to their defeats against Brighton and Tottenham earlier in the season.

Unfortunately for Moyes, Everton will be without their most creative player this season, as Jack Grealish is unable to play against his parent club. After performing well off the bench against Crystal Palace, Carlos Alcaraz is most likely expecting to step into the vacant starting position, unless Moyes opts for a more like-for-like change with Tyler Dibling.

A trip to the Etihad is usually a write-off in most teams’ seasons. But supporters will be in high spirits after the comeback win against Crystal Palace before the international break, and expect the visitors to at least threaten.

Reader Comments (39)

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James Marshall 1 Posted 16/10/2025 at 13:31:07

Why is this even an issue? Until we're good enough to compete for honours or the top 4 then games against the best teams don't have that much relevance in my view.

We've been shite for years so our current aim should be mid table safety before we think about anything else.

Thinking about beating the best teams regularly is well out of our reach at the moment and all it does it breed disappointment.

Baby steps. We need to solidify ourselves as a team no longer flirting with relegation before we start getting ideas above our station. I'll be very happy if we finish around 12th or above this season. It's the next few years where we'll be looking to push higher up the league.

Brian Harrison 4 Posted 16/10/2025 at 14:16:49

i think to expect us to now compete with the top 6, considering where this team has been in the last few years is unrealistic. I read a stat the other day that since Moyes has returned there are only 2 clubs who have amassed more points. But at the end of the day its usually those who spend the most tend to win the most. I am sure some will mention Leicester, but that was a once in a 50year occurrence, thats why clubs promoted to the Premier league get relegated the following season. I think we have to be realistic and accept that it will take more than 1 window and a lot more money to be spent before we can challenge the very best in the league on a regular basis.

Ryan Holroyd 5 Posted 16/10/2025 at 21:33:23

You do realise City and Spurs have much better players than Everton?

Robert Tressell 6 Posted 16/10/2025 at 21:40:28

Ryan # 5, you're missing the point that any Everton manager worth his salt should be able to overcome any disadvantage, no matter how great, by (variously):

- tinkering with the formation

- going for it

- demanding intensity

- playing someone who hasn't played for a while, and therefore escapes criticism for recent poor performances

- blooding a youngster from the academy

Unfortunately, we've had a long line of incompetent cowards in the managerial hot seat.

Kevin Molloy 7 Posted 16/10/2025 at 22:15:05

I think this might be a game for Dibling. It's a free hit, no real pressure on him to perform, but he could be an effective outlet for us, drawing fouls and moving us up the pitch when we are under the cosh.

Annika Herbert 8 Posted 17/10/2025 at 01:01:29

I haven't seen too many people expecting us to compete as a tip 6 club. But many who expect to at least give the big 6 a run for their money every time we play them.

Instead of instantly adopting a safety first line up and hoping to snatch a draw.

I am not suggesting we go gung ho, but at least have a go at these so called top 6.

I think we lack the pace to be a full on counter attacking team, but that doesn't stop us actually attempting to create chances does it?

Steve Brown 9 Posted 17/10/2025 at 03:05:00

Great post Robert @ 6,

Funny to see the defeatist excuses flooding in so early "we've been shite", "not realistic", they have "much better players", "baby steps', let's beat Brentford! These posters normally wait at least until 30 minutes into the game when we are 2-0 down.

I hope we see Moyes 2.0 in action and a proactive gameplan. Treat every league games as winnable and target a cup, and Everton fan will back you 100%.

Colin Glassar 10 Posted 17/10/2025 at 07:44:07

Over the years we’ve become accustomed to the, ‘a draw would be good but we’ll probably lose’ mentality.

I can’t remember the last time we played away from home (against a sly six side) and expected a win.

One of the components of Moyes's glass ceiling.

Even now I don't think Everton are capable of a sustained effort in a European competition.If Cup form over many Managers and many seasons is a precursor Everton do not have the squad or the ability to utilise a squad for multiple competitions.The primary objective is to stay in the Premier League where up to now Everton have a recent prolonged history of fighting relegation.

All we can do is demand improvement and not be content with the odd good result in a attempt at least to raise the level required to progress.Highlghting the obvious as stated in this article is part of that process.

The day we allow Moyes to fill us with the sop of 'the Peoples Club' is the day he should be gone.As for pace the players should be allowed to play beyond the pace of Moyes's brain.

I responded to Christine Foster’s article - Bridging the Gap - a few weeks ago but the editorial team decided against publishing it.

An analysis of the results since the start of the Premier League shows Everton’s performance as follows

Home Away

Win Draw Lose Win Draw Lose

Pre-Moyes 13 (24%) 20 22 7 (13%) 13 33

Post-Moyes 19 (23%) 23 25 4 (6%) 19 47

Moyes 24 (34%) 18 29 8 (11%) 21 41

Sorry - but even putting in spaces, it still does not look like a table.

In terms of Points compared to the maximum available,

Pre-Moyes we achieved 59 (36%) at home and 34 (21%) away while Post-Moyes it was 80 (40%) and 31 (15%).

In the time Moyes has been in charge (including the 7 games last season) he has achieved 90 (42%) and 45 (21%). So he was better at home than any of the managers before or after him and as good as the ones before him and better than the ones that followed when playing away from Goodison.

I am sure there will be shock that the column for wins under Moyes away from home is not Zero. They were at Spurs and City, the latter who were in the Championship (and lower) for 5 of the 33 years of the Premiership. Since his departure at the end of 2013-14 the results away from home have been equally poor with 3 of the 4 wins coming during the Covid hit season of 2020-21. The other was famously the win at United when Moyes was their manager.

The return from the matches at Goodison Park post his departure hide another shocking statistic. Those 19 wins include a combined 2 against Liverpool, City and Spurs.

My conclusion is that Moyes sets out to beat teams at Goodison Park but it is away from home where he has suffered the complaints about his lack of bravery because we all look at his failure to win at Mordor, Emirates, The Bridge and the Theatre of Screams during his tenure.

That in the 245 games away at the Sky6 since the start of the Premier League we have only registered 15 wins is probably more a testament to the club than an individual manager, especially when half of those wins have been against City, Moyes winning there for 4 consecutive years.

Robert Tressell 16 Posted 17/10/2025 at 09:15:52

I see the Moyes glass ceiling like this:

- he can consistently over achieve with a non-competitive budget. That’s his sweet spot as per your stats Phil.

- he won’t risk material under achievement (which could mean relegation) by “going for it” without a competitive budget (and noting that every club bar us and 5 very rich established clubs have been relegated in the Premier League era suggests that this is boring but not wrong as such).

- his approach (maybe dictated to by club management, maybe not) is not well suited to cup competitions where at some stage you have to beat a few excellent teams.

- his approach is not well suited to a genuinely big / rich club with a competitive budget.

So for so long as we don’t have a competitive squad and budget (ie like this summer and probably next) Moyes is a good fit.

It’s not the Moyes glass ceiling we’re currently experiencing, it’s the financial glass ceiling. Moyes is currently helping to get us closer to the financial glass ceiling than we might otherwise be.

Rob Dolby 18 Posted 17/10/2025 at 09:31:57

Robert 16

Agree with your last paragraph but would you trust Moyes to spend big money to break through the financial glass ceiling? or do you think he would sit on the budget and keep a cautious approach knowing where his bread and butter is?

Michael Kenrick Editorial Team 19 Posted 17/10/2025 at 09:33:52

Hi Phil,

I responded to Christine Foster’s article -- Bridging the Gap -- a few weeks ago but the editorial team decided against publishing it.

I don't think that's quite correct. There's no record of us receiving a comment from you on that thread (although we did get one from your doppleganger in Kelsall). If we'd have got one, it should be there.

Robert Tressell 20 Posted 17/10/2025 at 09:53:31

Andy # 17, to be honest, after reading Steve’s reply I am no longer sure of anything.

Rob # 16, it’s academic. Moyes will be gone before we are rich again. But no, he’s not the guy for a big budget or a big club.

Grant Rorrison 21 Posted 17/10/2025 at 10:09:48

Robert 16. "not well suited to cup competitions where at some stage you have to beat a few excellent teams."

We beat Liverpool, Villa and Man United on the way to the 2009 cup final.

We also got our last win at Stamford Bridge against Chelsea in the 2011 FA cup. We also beat Bobby Robson's Newcastle side that finished 3rd in the league that year, in a league cup tie at St James Park in 2002/03.

Bar Martinez beating Chelsea in the QF of the FA cup in 2016 and winning the 1st leg of the league cup semi against City (but not the 2nd) who has beaten a decent side in a cup game in recent memory?

Brian you did read a stat the other day, you did so on ToffeeWeb and it was total bollocks.We were joint 7th with Brighton after having played a game more.

Steve stop complaining with us being passive and negative. Don't comment on threads specifically asking you to comment on them. Instead You will have to wait for 75 more transfer windows (for spending that is never going to happen) listening relentlessly to how much Burnleys summer net was or how brilliant Ipswich's left back is or how we are inferior to squads who have few internationals and others who haven't even had Premier League level experience or quality.

Don't worry Steve my friend there is hope, once we have the likes of Roberto Carlos and Cafu as our marauding full backs and two centre backs like Ferdinand and Van Dick we will be able to stop thinking about camping on our six yard line every first half.

Only then could we compete with the likes of the worst Man Utd in decades in a one-off game.

However despite annoyance at your critique of the manager it still dawn's on your critic that allowing for 75 windows and having the most complete squad in world football with rapid athletic defenders, we would still fucking play on the back foot with this manager as history proved at United and West Ham.

Steve Brown 23 Posted 17/10/2025 at 11:22:48

Andy @ 17, I have to admit the first sentence of my post @ 9 was being ironic about Robert’s irony.

The rest of my post was my sentiment, as surely it is time to pivot from the traditional Moyes tactical game plan against the “Big Six”. Why? Because it has been an unmitigated failure.

As they say, the definition of insanity to doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Steve Brown 24 Posted 17/10/2025 at 11:46:11

Haha Conor, the comments don’t bother me to be honest.

I find this financial glass ceiling narrative as dull and repetitive as it is simplistic. It simply shows a lack of understanding of how businesses think and operate.

A CEO and/or owner will set the strategy and goals, demand greater value from the resources they invest in, expect improved standards and better operational delivery. They will do that while looking at all opportunities to reduce cost.

They want more for less and won’t wait 5 years for delivery (or 75 transfer windows), regardless of the level of investment made.

Nor will TFG I am guessing.

There are people on this sites I respect a lot Conor, and you are one of them mate. Keep posting Conor. I plan to do the same.

Ryan Holroyd 26 Posted 17/10/2025 at 12:10:18

‘Play on the front foot ‘

And we will storm league I guess 😂Just replace any manager and we will be winning trophies.

When do Everton ever win trophies ?

Three years 40 years ago.

When our wage bill is the same as Man City’s I will expect us to beat them.

We are in a much better position now than for late few years so improvement has been made let’s celebrate that. We will finish between 8-13 this year and my prediction is 10th which is very satisfactory. We have some good footballers now grealish ndjie branthwaite Pickford would get in most sides let’s celebrate improvement and the icing on cake would be the FA cup this is where I disagree with Moyes we should go all out for a cup. Moyes wasn’t my choice to return but he’s done and doing a very good job everyone everywhere can always improve that should always be everyone’s goal but does not alter fact we are a much better team now under him than dyche

Ryan Holroyd 28 Posted 17/10/2025 at 12:12:38

“ A CEO and/or owner will set the strategy and goals, demand greater value from the resources they invest in, expect improved standards and better operational delivery”

All of which this manager has done since he first arrived at the football club.

Who else has done that ?

Answer me that question?

Ryan Holroyd 29 Posted 17/10/2025 at 12:19:14

Everton are a medium sized club in the north west of England, the second club in it’s relatively small city surrounded by three giants within 40 miles of each other.

We do pretty well to be 7th to 12th in all reality

Steve Brown 30 Posted 17/10/2025 at 12:25:51

Ryan, the manager has done none of those things since he came back to club.

Above all, because none of these responsibilities are his job.

Jake FitzGerald 31 Posted 17/10/2025 at 12:36:44

It’s not Moyes’s job to improve standards or get the best out of the resources available, Steve?Ok.

Kevin Molloy 32 Posted 17/10/2025 at 12:51:13

ConorMoyes took relegation bound West Ham to regular European finishes and a European trophy. they've still got some cracking players thanks to his stewardship. It's so weird all this criticism of a chap that has been outstanding since he got here, and had us top six for over a decade on no money. We've literally been stinking the place out for years, Moyes arrives and immediately shifts us to top six form, and you've done nothing but cry arse.

Robert Tressell 33 Posted 17/10/2025 at 13:01:57

Steve, I am a bit sad it turns out we didn’t agree after all.

I do struggle with why you think this financial glass ceiling is superficial though. If it were not, then logically the Premier League would not be dominated by the richest clubs from time to time. Yet it is. That’s exactly how it works.

One or sometimes two of the richest clubs balls things up (eg Man Utd and Spurs last season) but the remainder are all there or thereabouts (and of course crappy Spurs managed to win a trophy too).

And even if we can buck the trend with a CEO who sets high targets and demands more for less, surely everyone can do the same.

Sunderland for example could set a higher target and demand even more for even less.

Or more realistically richer clubs might notice our cunning plan of setting a higher target target and raise their own accordingly.

One the dust has settled after everyone has set and reset their targets - then presumably the league returns to normal - with the upper echelons and cup trophies dominated by the richest clubs?

Conor McCourt 35 Posted 17/10/2025 at 13:27:16

Rob D at @18

"Would you trust Moyes to spend big money to break through the glass ceiling?".

In his last 3 seasons at West Ham he spent 75m,197m and 145m euro respectively when West Ham spent big money. Those figures would be closer to being doubled if applying them to today's market.

Of the players signed only Vlasic, Scamacca and Kudus were under 25. Here is a list of the players costing over 20m euros during West Hams splurge. It doesn't include other experienced transfer failings like Ings and Phillips during that period as they don't meet the criteria.

Zouma 35m, Vlasic 30m, Pacqueta 43m, Scammaca 39m, Aguerd 35m, Cornet 21m, Kudus 43m, Alvarez 38m, Ward Prowse 35m, Mavrapanos 20m.

Not only is that list worrying from a quality point of view with only Pacqueta and Kudus being considered value for money. However more importantly the real consequences were that Moyes left them in a total mess. They were down in 14th place with an aged, unbalanced poor squad with only a handful of sellable assets and a plethora of dead wood you couldn't give away.

They have now shifted their transfer strategy with more recent additions like Diouf, Fernandes, Summerville and Mangassa all 23 or younger and a lot more academy graduates getting opportunities like Potts did when he changed the game against us. They have had to start again from a low base.

The difference between our predicament and theirs is that we had to get rid of many of our crown jewels and operating on net deficits to arrive in the mess we did. They arrived in 14th having just spent 417m euros in the previous 3 seasons.

Brilliant Robert

The owners could say ‘ we set a target to win the premier league within the next 2 seasons ‘

‘We want to do this by cutting costs ‘

Until we get a wage bill of £400m plus (currently about 160m)

It ain’t happening

Conor 35.

West Ham finished 9th in Moyes final season. Not 14th. The 14th place season was due to competing in, and winning, their first trophy in forever.

They did finish 14th last season, without Moyes, and having spent a fortune on more players with only one of the under 23 names you mentioned being brought in at that time.

Why did they only start buying lots of young players 12 months after Moyes left if he was the only problem in that regard?

Besides, bringing in young players guarantees nothing as you point out. 66% of the under 25's that Moyes signed, that you make mention to, left for a loss after disappointing.

Can you blame a bloke, in a results driven industry, for bringing in players that can produce specific useful things now, rather than waiting to see if a young player can do so further down the line?

Tony Abrahams 40 Posted 17/10/2025 at 15:00:50

Conor@35, I still shudder how Moyes, spent the Lescott money, when he wasn’t that far away from having a really good team, and just needed a couple more quality additions.

Distinct, was a brilliant replacement for Lescott, at less than a quarter of the price, but Billyletdown, (a player I don’t think he had really watched -I think/hope!) and Heitenga, (who I could maybe understand because of his versatility - until I watched him playing midfield!) were not really two players who were going to help move us forward, imo.