David Moyes labels second half against Sunderland “abysmal”, calls for more consistency

David Moyes has called for his side to show more consistency during matches after suffering an “abysmal” second half in their 1-1 draw with Sunderland at the Stadium of Light on Monday.

The Blues got the better of the hosts for the opening 30 minutes of the contest and created a flurry of chances which was capped off by Iliman Ndiaye’s fantastic solo run and goal. However, missed chances cost them dearly as the Black Cats grew into the game with time and completely outplayed Everton in the second half.

Granit Xhaka scored just 40 seconds after the restart to restore parity and in the words of Moyes, the only positive from the second half was that his side didn’t concede a second goal.

Everton are winless in three matches as the draw with Regis Le Bris’ side was preceded by losses to Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur and Moyes wants his players to show their quality for longer spells.

"Yes, we want to keep it going. That's why I'm disappointed tonight, because I thought the second-half performance was way below the levels we've set generally, and I think we'd set the levels we think we're at in the first half for long periods. But it's not good enough if we're only doing it for 30 minutes. We need to be able to play well. We played quite well at Man City for 30 minutes, we played quite well against Tottenham for 30, 40 minutes, but it wasn't enough and it's not enough. We've got to find a way out – doing it for much longer periods than we're doing at the moment.”

Despite the way the match ended, Everton’s start to the game couldn’t have been better. They dominated possession inside the Sunderland half, created several interesting rotational moves around the opposition box and made constant forays. The Blues also pressed extremely well to recover the ball quickly as the Black Cats struggled to get out of their own half and relieve the pressure.

James Garner had the first stab at goal, shooting from distance inside the first minute and just missing the target. Ndiaye put the Toffees ahead after beating four defenders and slotting into the left corner.

Jack Grealish’s shot from outside the box was thwarted by the woodwork while Grealish almost had an assist just minutes later as his delicious cross to Thierno Barry was met with a ridiculous attempt that flew over the crossbar despite being just two yards away from goal.

"After a few minutes or so I was thinking, 'We've got this game, we're playing so well and if we keep this up then we'll be getting the goals'. We get one, hit the post twice, then Barry misses a big chance which would have made it 2-0. I thought that took the wind out of our sails a little bit. I think everybody sort of went, 'Oh my goodness, we didn't take the chance we got', because Sunderland are one of the best defensive teams in the league at the moment and not giving away too many opportunities.

"So to have got 2-0 up would have been a big thing for us and we didn't get it. I thought they became the better team in the last 15 minutes of the first half and they were certainly the better team for the majority of the second half. I thought we were absymal in the second half. We were resilient enough to stick and get a point out of it, but I'm a bit disappointed. I'm more disappointed with the performance today than I am with the point."

Reader Comments (101)

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Mal van Schaick 2 Posted 04/11/2025 at 13:52:48

There wasn't a lot wrong with that first half performance but, as you would expect from a home team, they came out for the second half and upped the tempo and put us on the back foot. Moyes should have addressed that by strengthening the midfield.

I find it hard to believe that he is laying the abysmal tag on the players, when he and Irvine saw what we all saw, that Sunderland pressed harder up the pitch and they did nothing to combat that.

Derek Street 3 Posted 04/11/2025 at 13:54:04

So the manager was disappointed with the second half performance... Well, Davey, there lies the problem -- the inability of the management team to make changes in order to have a positive impact on the game. But, as against Man City and Spurs, we prefer to let the game drift and then moan about it afterwards.

What is the point in bringing on Charly Alcaraz and Tim Iroegbunam in the 83rd minute when the previous 60 have been appalling?

Our one-dimensional approach to every game, expecting different results, is what got Dyche the sack. The Beto and Barry debate has raged for weeks: neither look anywhere near Premier League standard but both play in some part every week.

The decision-making in the transfer and loan market (apart from Jack Grealish) has quite frankly been appalling.

Changes need to be made: try Jack down the middle where he was his most effective at Aston Villa.

Odds on the team selection for the Fulham game, anyone?

Andy Crooks 4 Posted 04/11/2025 at 14:08:26

The second-half performance was down to the utterly abysmal coach.

I think that bringing McNeil on was up there with the cretinous Martinez against Southampton.

Bringing Moyes back for a contract longer than six months was mad. He has stolen a living off Everton and is just as complicit as Kenwright.

Paul Hewitt 5 Posted 04/11/2025 at 14:24:02

Your management was abysmal.

John Williams 6 Posted 04/11/2025 at 14:34:46

Sadly, Everton have some crap supporters and have done for a number of years.

Moyes might not be the greatest manager around, but some of you guys would give Pep a hard time if he was Everton's manager -- and what is worrying, most of you don't have a clue about football management.

You just like a moan, you probably moan about your next door neighbours, your doctor, the hospital and anything you don't agree with.

Some of you need to grow up or shut up.

Stu Gre 7 Posted 04/11/2025 at 14:50:02

Really weird, John, that on a fan site, you are asking people with genuine concerns about Moyes's ability to shut up.

Some of these fans will have spent many years, a lot of money and tears supporting their team. Surely it's okay to point out the manager's flaws and his constant "not my fault" comments? It's no different to people blindly supporting Moyes, but apparently that's okay?

Just as Moyes got a tune out of the same players Dyche couldn't, I suspect a different manager could do the same with the players Moyes is criticising. No harm pointing that out.

I'm just shocked, given how trigger happy TFG have been elsewhere, that he is still in this job.

Paul Hewitt 8 Posted 04/11/2025 at 15:02:01

John. I praise Moyes when he does well, like last season.

But unfortunately he deserves criticism at the moment. Bit like most people in their jobs.

Andy Crooks 9 Posted 04/11/2025 at 15:02:11

Glad you feel qualified to call out fellow Evertonians as crap supporters, John.

Nasty, smug little post.

Christy Ring 10 Posted 04/11/2025 at 15:03:56

John, he's probably right in that, if we had scored that 2nd goal, we'd have probably won comfortably.

But Xhaka ran the show in the 2nd half, and Iroegbunam or Röhl should have been on before the hour mark to shore up midfield. And when did McNeil ever play as a right-winger?

You don't need to know too much about ‘football management' to see that. Telling ToffeeWeb members to shut up or grow up is definitely out of context and makes little sense!

Steve Brown 11 Posted 04/11/2025 at 15:04:51

Slagging off your fellow Everton fans as they actually have expectations and standards.

You can't sink much lower.

Daniel A Johnson 12 Posted 04/11/2025 at 15:06:45

Moyes is risk-averse -- that applies to the players he likes and purchases and the coaching staff he likes to work with.

When he was manager of Sunderland, instead of acquiring young fresh talent, he opted to sign:

Darron GibsonBryan OviedoJoleon LescottSteven PienaarVictor Anichebe

Ex-Everton players all well past it.

That tells you all you need to know about him.

Oh yeah, they were relegated also.

Frank Crewe 13 Posted 04/11/2025 at 15:12:28

We've been poor now for a few weeks. This makes me suspicious that something isn't right between the players and the management.

The side we put out last night is the same as we played earlier in the season. Yet our goal came from the individual skill of Ndiaye rather than a team effort.

All those signings in the summer... but the only ones we see on a regular basis are Grealish and Dewsbury-Hall. Barry gets the odd appearance but Dibling and Anzou barely get a look in at all.

Yet Dibling, Anzou and Barry cost the club £70M + between them. So why aren't they on the pitch more regularly?

Particularly Dibling, since he was a regular in the Southampton side last season. So they can hardly say he has no Premier League experience. Dibling was on the bench last night but Moyes used McNeil instead.

I just feel there is something going on and we're not being told about it. But until whatever it is gets sorted out, we will continue to struggle.

Liam Mogan 15 Posted 04/11/2025 at 15:23:30

John @6,

You should write an update on that book, "How to Win Friends and Influence People".

Jay Harris 16 Posted 04/11/2025 at 15:39:18

Let me start by saying we played a side -- that would go 2nd in the Premier League table with a win at their home ground, with massive Jordie support -- off the pitch for 30 minutes, so let's give some credit and praise for that.

As far as I can see, it is the players automatically go to default defence after taking a lead and drop far too deep, no doubt encouraged by Keane, Tarkowski and Pickford.

Barry was regularly found in his own half, so we had no forward outlet and resorted to long boots up the pitch.

To me, this is a lack of confidence and coaching so, although I am certainly not in the Moyes Out camp, he is part of the problem currently.

I ask the same question as others: when Dewsbury-Hall tired notably because he was running around like a headless chicken, why not bring Röhl on??

Why bring McNeil, who is not match fit and as slow as hell, on to replace Ndiaye when we have Alcaraz and Dibling raring to get an opportunity???

Barry's head dropped visibly when he missed that golden chance; why let him carry on? Make a change!!

To the whole team: when we take a lead, go for the throat while we have the momentum and the home crowd is discontent.

Rob Dolby 17 Posted 04/11/2025 at 15:39:30

Moyes is correct in his summary of he game. He does fail to say that he is the only person who could have changed the formation and strategy.

It's all very well saying we were shite for 60 minutes... do something about it!. The away fans were singing for Charly Alcaraz with 30 minutes to go but Moyes gives the lad 5 minutes.

It's so obvious in every game a Premier League team will dominate our midfield as soon as we stop passing it and resorting to percentage play.

Our whole system is built around Dewsbury-Hall. Like the last couple of years, it's been Doucoure. If Dewsbury-Hall plays well, we play well; if not, we get overrun.

Moyes has plenty of options across midfield, he should be changing things. Our best 2 players are wingers so get the ball to both of them asap and then get it back asap once we lose it.

John @6.

When you say 'Everton' you do mean "we" don't you? It makes you sound like you're not a fan.

When I talk about other teams, I refer to them by their name. When I talk about the Blues, it's "us" or "we".

Ian Wilkins 18 Posted 04/11/2025 at 15:43:48

The problem with our back-up players, McNeil aside, who is currently bereft of confidence, is that they are not Moyes ready. Dibling, Röhl, and Iroegbunam all have some talent, but don't yet do the Premier League required hard yards covering and the defensive duties he expects.

I doubt some of the Summer acquisitions were Moyes's. He's not yet convinced by some of them. Maybe never will be. I'm not sure who scouted Barry, but I'd like to know.

Were we a club who could invest in players for a few years time when we needed players on the pitch now…?

Kevin Molloy 19 Posted 04/11/2025 at 16:00:40

Ian yes, this is the critical point. The result will soon fade, but that sub will still continue to bug me. It means he can't risk Dibling in the least pressurising environment (20 minutes, away to a crap side).

We've just lashed out £40M on him! And so this reveals these aren't his players. So then you wonder, which are his players? Dewsbury-Hall, Grealish. And so we've got £100M of players that the manager doesn't rate.

What a total cock up. And I'm not putting all the blame on Moyes, I fear this transfer committee has left it's mark on us already.

Les Callan 20 Posted 04/11/2025 at 16:17:14

Jay @ 16.

Don't let a Sunderland supporter hear you call him a “Jordie”!

Phil Roberts 21 Posted 04/11/2025 at 16:21:10

Jay -- remember...

He's a Mackem he's a BlueHe's a Toffee through and throughHe hates the ToonHe hates the ShiteJordan Pickford is Dynamite.

Jay Harris 22 Posted 04/11/2025 at 16:23:08

Well spotted, Les, haha, predictive text strikes again.

Maybe I should have said Georgies. That would really get them going.

Jim Bennings 23 Posted 04/11/2025 at 16:30:42

It once again shows how mentally fragile we are collectively that a game completely turns on its head almost full circle after that Barry miss.

I've never seen a football team before collapse so quickly when controlling a game as we do; it's not a one-off thing either.

It would be interesting to see what our points tally, goal return in the for and against column was at this time last season because it was around early November that it very quickly unravelled for Sean Dyche.

George Cumiskey 24 Posted 04/11/2025 at 16:30:48

Well said, John @6.

You must be the person who taught Pep, Ferguson, Klopp, Slot, Carlo and all the great managers all they know about management. Well done, mate!

Sean Mitchell 25 Posted 04/11/2025 at 16:45:13

There's been far too many first- or second-half abysmal performances.

How about dealing with it instead of winging? Change and adapt. Drop the shite strikers for a start. Pickford up front would do a better job.

Other managers find a solution. Moyes is stuck in 2004.

Andrew Ellams 26 Posted 04/11/2025 at 16:52:39

The substitutions last night were shocking and the Barry - Beto switcheroo has become embarrassing.

I don't see him being here next season. Ditto Grealish, who's love affair with the club seems to be slipping.

Kieran Kinsella 27 Posted 04/11/2025 at 17:01:53

All those criticizing Moyes now... Just wait until early January when we play Shrewsbury Town in the one cup he hasn't thrown already.

And he decides, because we've a few players away in Africa, that it is a great time to play a C-team and throw that cup too.

Mike Powell 28 Posted 04/11/2025 at 17:20:01

We were abysmal, so why didn't you change it at half-time? Why keep swapping Barry for Beto or Beto for Barry, when we can all see it's not working?

Midfield was non-existent in the second-half, both full-backs were awful, along with Tarkowski, Gana and McNeil when he came on.

Why not try Alcaraz up front, put Dibling and Röhl on?

John, we have some of the best supporters in the country who have every right to moan about that performance. What do you want them to do? Clap them and say "Well done, boys" for that awful performance?

Iain Johnston 29 Posted 04/11/2025 at 17:23:03

For me, I'd like to see 4-3-3 with a midfield of Dewsbury-Hall, Alcaraz and Garner with Grealish, Ndiaye and Dibling upfront.

We have McNeil for left-midfield cover who can track back and defend and again for me Patterson would make a decent right-midfielder. We have Röhl to fill in when Alcaraz tires and either Gana or Tim if/when we want to be a bit more defensive. Beto scores most of his goals with his feet so stop hoofing it up to him.

As for Barry...? Next...

Bill Hawker 30 Posted 04/11/2025 at 17:29:45

I've said it once, I'll say it a thousand times more.

Many forget that Moyes, when chasing a match down 1-0 or 2-1, would bring in Johnny Heitinga for Phil Neville at defensive midfield.

That's the type of manager he is and why it was time for him to go the last time around. He hasn't really changed at all but Dycheball was so turgid and unimaginative that any change would have been an improvement.

But going forward? Moyes won't get us into the top half.

Jimmy Carr 31 Posted 04/11/2025 at 17:40:16

I agree with John Williams, though I wouldn't put it quite like that.

The thing is, Toffee Web is not representative of the Everton fanbase, the views expressed here are way more negative. It can be utterly depressing reading the ranting and 'told you so' posts after a bad or average result.

John Williams's comment is a response to that and I get where he's coming from. It's fine to have a moan about Everton, but many of the posts offer zero balance or context and come across like an opinion piece about asylum seekers in the Daily Mail.

Last night is a good example. We're told Barry's miss was 'ludicrous' and cost us the game. That is patently not true. A poor overall performance by the manager and entire team cost us 3 points. Barry's miss didn't help; however, a number of other players didn't turn up.

That said we came away with a point against a team currently in the top four. Not the end of the world really, but let's not let that get in the way of another moan-fest, lads.

Jerome Shields 32 Posted 04/11/2025 at 17:42:27

An abysmal coach called David was the problem.

All the reasons as above... except John, who got the wrong end of the stick.

Mike Allison 33 Posted 04/11/2025 at 17:42:42

We're in a hole of Moyes's making. Alcaraz, Dibling and McNeil are all way short of match fitness and so we don't have the depth that it looked like we had. We finish almost every game poorly as players tire and aren't replaced.

I'd be on the lookout now for the next manager. Moyes's contract is for this season and one more. I'd be looking to change next summer but, if the owners have an idea of who they want and they are available before then, I think we should just do it.

Moyes is definitely not going to go beyond his current contract, so as long as we think we're not in danger of relegation, it makes sense to put the long-term plan in place as soon as the opportunity arises.

To be clear, this is not a “Moyes Out”, ‘He has to go now' type post, but we should be looking beyond him and identifying the right long-term person.

Moyes is showing all of his known weaknesses at the moment and showing no signs of learning and developing. Not too surprising for a 62-year-old really.

David Bromwell 34 Posted 04/11/2025 at 17:47:16

Well, Mr Moyes, I hope someone points out the perspective from the majority of the fans who will acknowledge that our squad has limitations -- but surely they could be managed more effectively!

As others have said, McNeil as a right winger makes no footballing sense. And when your team is regularly struggling, why leave your substitutions until the very end of the game?

Hopefully we will see a team that can play for the full 90 minutes on Saturday, as 30 minutes of nice football is clearly not winning us many matches.

You have options; please don't be afraid to use them, and don't openly criticise your players as we believe you are as much at fault as some of them are.

Michael Coville 35 Posted 04/11/2025 at 17:52:53

I don't often comment about Moyes, I wanted him back and he did a good job last season. However, he has become so one-dimensional, it is scary. We all know the definition of insanity, and he is the master.

Ndiaye showed how a good center-forward scores goals and yet we continue to use the B&B duo who have shown again and again that they are not up to the task.

I really thought that we would try something different this time. If he doesn't change the tactics soon, we will unfortunately be on the managerial merry-go-around again.

Stu Gre 36 Posted 04/11/2025 at 18:16:29

Jimmy #31, personally think the posts before John's were generally pretty thoughtful and constructive.

100% true that TW can be negative, but I do feel that aligns with what we see from the club.

For negativity, I read disappointment, particularly when our new dawn turned out to be a bit of a wet fizzle.

Moyes is not the problem, but he is a symptom of the problem. You cannot have a new dawn if you roll back 13 years.

The owners, the new infrastructure is basically delivering the same old turge and Moyes is, rightly or wrongly, the face and voice of that for a lot of us.

He is like Kathy Bates in Misery. Thinks he's nursing us back to health but really he's just stopping us from moving.

Christy Ring 37 Posted 04/11/2025 at 18:33:49

Jimmy #31,

If you don't mind me saying, you have totally contradicted yourself when you say you agree with John Williams, and then say “a poor overall performance from the manager and the entire team cost us 3 points”.

John is saying we haven't a clue about football management, but you've just criticised Moyes as well for last night?

Billy Shears 38 Posted 04/11/2025 at 18:34:41

Then change it up! A new system of playing would help... don't always play your favourites!

You ain't got Kenwright to save you now, Davey!!

John Williams 39 Posted 04/11/2025 at 18:40:29

Let's get a few facts put on here.

Firstly, supporters do not choose a football club's manager. Yes, they can get them sacked, they can also chase an Everton player down the road, giving him abuse.

They can make a manager's life a misery and drive them out. They can destroy the relationship of one of our best players of the last 40 years, Graeme Sharp, because he was a Kenwright supporter.

If anyone does not think the above are crap supporters, then you need to have a long look in the mirror.

Derek Powell 40 Posted 04/11/2025 at 18:56:03

Comes out with some shit does the Moyesiah...

Merle Urquart 41 Posted 04/11/2025 at 18:56:14

Abysmal 2nd half...???

They were following your instructions!

John Hall 42 Posted 04/11/2025 at 18:58:08

Does Moyes want out? Perhaps he's trying for a quick release to increase his compensation? I can't think of any other reason for his in-game performances.

Unless of course he is either dithering too much or a complete duffus!

Liam Mogan 43 Posted 04/11/2025 at 19:00:34

I haven't got a clue about managing and am a crap fan, but I firmly believe that young Barry has a great future behind him.

Merle Urquart 44 Posted 04/11/2025 at 19:01:10

Keep fiddling while Rome burns, John Williams.

Dale Self 45 Posted 04/11/2025 at 19:11:12

John '42,

I think TFG should think about paying the £5M and get on with preserving some transfer values. Moyes will not add value to any of our acquisitions.

David Cooper 46 Posted 04/11/2025 at 19:20:07

I have been watching Dewsbury-Hall closely for the past few games and I'm not sure what he brings to the team in his present position, which I take to be the Number 10. So far, in 8 games, he has contributed 1 goal and 1 assist.

Yet Moyes has picked him regularly in his starting XI and rarely even subbed him, so I am not sure what Moyes sees and I don't.

After a stunning 25 minutes where we played as well as we have done for a while, even though I don't remember Dewsbury-Hall contributing to much.

Then Sunderand took over for the next 60 minutes. Xhaxa ran the game and Gana could not shut him down. At that point, I thought it was crying out for Röhl to come into midfield and someone going off. But despite 4 subs, Röhl did not appear. Was he injured or is he not trusted by Moyes?

Moyes let his emotions factor into hauling Barry off 56 minutes after what had been his best performance despite missing a sitter, and on came Beto who did his normal thing.

Barry's determination won and kept the ball for Ndiaye to score his magnificent goal -- forgotten clearly by Moyes.So tactically I think Moyes didn't trust his team after it was 1-1 and was quite happy to take a point.

From what I have seen of Röhl, I think he has a lot to offer the team in that Number 10 position and put Dewsbury-Hall on the bench.

But don't get me started about McNeil coming on which was a strange choice and all Moyes said was he has been training well. I'm sure all of the team are training well.

Was it to shut him up for complaining and Moyes saying, "Show me what you can do"? Dyche got the best out of McNeil by trusting him -- something Moyes clearly does not.

So Moyes is coming up to almost a year in charge and, yes, things are better... but is that all we can expect from The Friedkin Group? Positions between 10th and 14th after investing their money is surely not good enough.

Moys is obstinate and clearly believes he knows best, so don't dare question him. Have you seen his attitude to pre-match conferences? Very dismissive!

So come on, Mr Friedkin, get your finger out!

Derek Knox 47 Posted 04/11/2025 at 19:25:00

John @ 39, while much of what you say is true, I don't get this 'tongue in Moyes's anal cleavage' attitude. Moyes, like the players, is very highly paid to (hopefully) produce results and again hopefully entertain the fans who have paid (not received) a lot of money to be entertained while supporting (often at great personal time and effort) them.

Last night's match was a good 3 hours minimum travel regardless of what mode was used. This on a Monday evening when many have to go to work the next day, not getting 'home' till the early hours. They have put the effort in, it's not a lot to expect the same in return.

Now Moyes was totally culpable yesterday of poor team selection and even worse timing, and personnel used in substitutions. That game was 'winnable' last night -- especially after we led for a long period.

So let's name the guilty and hopefully shame them too; if they 'do one', there are more fish in the sea!

Stuart Sharp 48 Posted 04/11/2025 at 19:46:15

In my view, Dewsbury-Hall is a very good player and better than many recent predecessors, but he's not a Number 10.

I regularly defend Moyes because I think he's done a good job of getting us to this point (and some of the bile on here is crazy). But last night was baffling.

It's hard to disagree with posts about his failure to change things in the 2nd half, or him bringing Barry off (in under an hour!). I was going nuts.

It will be very interesting to see who starts on Saturday.

Ryan Holroyd 49 Posted 04/11/2025 at 20:13:03

I like David Moyes but he got it massively wrong last night -- and not for the first time this season.

The subs especially were a joke.

Richard Nelson 50 Posted 04/11/2025 at 20:22:09

Granit Xhaka vs Gana Gueye...

No contest!

Denver Daniels 51 Posted 04/11/2025 at 20:36:28

Barry is clearly bereft of confidence and then his manager piles on him in public. Nice one, Moyes. He probably rues the day he signed for us. Blaming the players yet again, some things never change.

I don't think Mykolenko and O'Brien even attempted a single overlap. This is the manager's instructions. McNeil wide right was a head scratcher. Square pegs, round holes 2.0.

He coaches scared. He'd rather not lose than win.

Mike Gaynes 52 Posted 04/11/2025 at 20:59:41

No better writer covering Everton right now than Paddy Boyland of The Athletic. Here's an excerpt from what he just posted:

At this stage, Everton's profligacy is old news. Much like the issues at full-back, it is already baked in.

But perhaps now is a good time to talk about the midfield and the general lack of control and physicality that has also plagued their play at times this season.

Whatever the reason, Everton did not manage this game well. Between the 29th minute and full time, they managed just one shot worth 0.02 in expected goals (xG). In the same 67 minutes, Sunderland had 16 attempts and registered an xG of 1.1. Everton's pass accuracy, meanwhile, slumped from 81 per cent in the first half to 74 per cent after the break.

Perhaps this was tactical, and Everton sought to absorb Sunderland pressure. Mental, even, given the way the two teams have started the season. Moyes usually views draws away from home as a decent result.

But there has also been this nagging sense at times this campaign that the balance is not quite right in Everton's midfield. There were long spells of the second half, with the wind swirling, when they failed to make their mark.

Moyes wanted more stature in his engine room this summer, bringing in the towering Merlin Rohl on loan from Freiburg, yet the starting trio of Idrissa Gueye, Garner and Dewsbury-Hall lack height and pace. Gueye is 36 and, as tidy as Dewsbury-Hall can be, he does not possess the mobility nor the defensive prowess of Abdoulaye Doucoure, the previous incumbent in the No 10 role. As Monday's draw showed, Everton are more susceptible to losing arm-wrestles this season.

These are the games where Dewsbury-Hall and fellow summer signing Grealish would usually be expected to step up and show their quality. Both have had moments since arriving, but mistakes spread like a virus through the team and Everton lacked a pressure valve. Neither really helped stem the tide. Much like his predecessor Sean Dyche's team, Moyes' Everton struggle to alter the course of games that are ebbing away from them.

Beto replaced Barry before the hour mark. Soon after, Dwight McNeil came on for Ndiaye, who felt “tightness” and was taken off as a precaution. But Moyes waited until the 83rd minute before changing his midfield, bringing on Carlos Alcaraz and Tim Iroegbunam for Dewsbury-Hall and Jake O'Brien, and shifting Garner to right-back.

Everton fans pointedly chanted Alcaraz's name before his introduction. He endured a difficult, wasteful cameo of his own, but he brings the kind of direct play and energy that the side needs. Yet even when Dewsbury-Hall is not on song, Moyes seems to prefer his cleaner, more predictable play to the Argentine's frantic style.

Another of the abiding images from Monday's draw was Barry, sat with his head in his hands, shortly after being substituted. The rotation up front with Beto seems to be doing neither player any favours and an obvious first choice is yet to emerge.

At some point, Dibling will also need proper minutes to show what he can do. Chopping and changing, or not playing them at all, will not help matters.

There is an edginess and restlessness around Everton right now. Perhaps the nagging concern from some of the fanbase is that the club may be sucked back into another fight for survival after early-season promise.

This was not necessarily a bad point given Sunderland's positive start to the season. But the nature of the performance in the last hour left Moyes with plenty of questions. He “struggled to pick out much positive” from the second half.

The search for answers, and a complete Everton performance, goes on.

Mike Gaynes 53 Posted 04/11/2025 at 21:11:59

I thought Moyes calling out Barry specifically was inappropriate and counterproductive. Yes, it was a terrible miss, but it was his first real chance as an Everton player, and I actually liked the way he was playing until then.

He won a nice knockdown for Garner's early chance, put in a crunching challenge to help Ndiaye win the ball on his goal, moved well and had some nice touches. To my eyes he looked comfortable for the first time. He was clearly shattered by the miss and had to come off, but to name him postgame was unpardonable by Moyes.

Also, I'd like to point out a weakness that's worse than striker or right back in my view. We have two midfielders who repeatedly lose the ball (or give it away) in vulnerable positions that allow instant counterattacks. And two is one too many. Dewsbury-Halland Gana simply cannot be on the pitch at the same time right now. Dewsbury-Hall is no Number 10 and must either be benched or moved back into Gana's Number 6 position.

I believe the ever-aggressive Charly Alcaraz is the best choice for Number 10 but I'm open to arguments on that one.

Dave Abrahams 54 Posted 04/11/2025 at 21:12:21

Mike (52),

I think ToffeeWeb combined to write a very similar report as Paddy Boyland's so I think quite a few on here would agree with him.

Mike Gaynes 55 Posted 04/11/2025 at 21:17:33

Dave #54, yep.

One thing Boyland didn't mention -- and I don't think anybody else has either -- was Moyes's very surprising choice of Iroegbunam off the bench instead of Röhl.

But I thought young Tim was excellent, with a couple of fine touches and an absolute peach of a tackle, so unlike Moyes's other choices, that one worked out well.

Kieran Kinsella 56 Posted 04/11/2025 at 21:18:17

Mike

It is ironic that McNeil lost his place -- and since then his confidence -- after being subbed off last season various times after giving the ball away in the middle. His replacement, Dewsbury-Hall, as you point out, is guilty of the same thing.

But unlike McNeil or indeed Alcaraz, Dewsbury-Hall has offered nothing in terms of assists or goals to offset his profligacy. The guy needs to offer something.

Moreover, as Number 10, his main function should be on scoring or creating goals. I don't understand why Moyes keeps shoehorning him into that role, especially with those around him.

Ian Bennett 57 Posted 04/11/2025 at 21:20:11

I don't disagree with the article or the view on Barry, Dewsbury-Hall or Gana, Mike.

The yellow card won't have done him any favours, so I suspect that played into the reason he was taken off -- more than the miss.

I think there is an issue as to whether we go with more technical players rather than some of the 'athletes' we have. We need a more technical play that's greater than passing it back to Pickford.

Mike Gaynes 58 Posted 04/11/2025 at 21:25:28

Kieran #56, actually I do understand that particular Moyes preference. He loves the way Dewsbury-Hall makes runs off the ball and creates lanes for Grealish to pass. And he's really good at it. But his lack of ball security is just deadly, and a Number 10 can't lose the ball the way he does.

Ian #57, very good point on the yellow card. Moyes may well have been concerned he'd get a second. Thanks.

Kieran Kinsella 59 Posted 04/11/2025 at 21:33:01

Imagine if we'd subbed Ramirez and Maupay in and out as much as Beto and Barry. They'd never have managed to score their one league goal.

Interesting stat I read yesterday: Niasse is the most prolific scorer we have had since Lukaku based on goals per minutes.

Stuart Sharp 60 Posted 04/11/2025 at 21:58:45

Barry actually came close to a second yellow and was making me nervous, but I somehow doubt that was the main reason Moyes subbed him. And for me, Alcaraz not passing at the end was just as bad as Barry's miss.

I agree with almost all of that article, but nobody is ever going to convince me we miss Doucoure.

Denver Daniels 61 Posted 04/11/2025 at 22:36:12

Kieran, I imagine we created quite a few chances for Niasse if that's the case.

These guys get 1 chance a game between them. 1 glaring chance, but still.

Les Callan 62 Posted 04/11/2025 at 23:41:45

John @39.

The only person who destroyed Sharp's relationship with the supporters was himself.

Jerome Shields 63 Posted 05/11/2025 at 00:16:37

Moyes is now a problem. His inferiority tactics have cost Everton most of the games since the Liverpool game, except against Palace.

The usual Moyes performance one would expect in such a game as this, where a good result would be pulled off, did not materialise.

Moyes now has run his course and has lost the dressing room. Gone is any hope that his glass ceiling can be broken. Now, Everton will struggle to finish mid-table.

Colin Glassar 64 Posted 05/11/2025 at 00:32:26

I have often thought TW should have a 👍 or 👎 button/option for each post.

Jerome gets a 👍 from me.

Laurie Hartley 65 Posted 05/11/2025 at 01:09:45

Mike # 53 -- I think of all the players available in this squad, Jack Grealish is the most well equiped technically and physically to fill the extremely important Number 10 role -- bar none.

He can protect the ball, pick a pass, beat a man, he is two-footed and has the awareness to know what is going on all over the pitch. Plus he can draw a foul if need be.

Playing him in the middle gets him closer to Ndiaye who I would play on the left and, for heaven's sake, start Dibling, who is a right winger, on his right.

I have berated Barry on here but I felt sorry for the lad when Moyes hooked him. He did play an important part in Ndiaye's goal, and he won quite a few aerial duels. His hold-up play is better than Beto's.

There was a chance for Moyes to boost the lad's confidence by saying "Okay, son, you missed a sitter but you are playing better and you are going to finish the game -- don't get a second yellow!"

Now for the midfield. The saying remains true: a good big yin will always beat a good little yin. From what I have seen of both Röhl and Iroegbunam in their brief cameos, I would start both of them on either side of Garner -- who, by the way, is developing into a top player.

I'd have to go to a back three (oops I tried to squeeze an extra player in but caught the edit just in time) and this is how I would set us up:-

PickfordO'Brien Tarkowski KeaneRöhl Garner IroegbunamDibling Grealish NdiayeBarry

If I am an opposition player coming out to face that team, I'm thinking “There are no easy touches in that lot”. It's the land of the giants at the back and three very technical players in front of them -- who are able to provide the service the centre-forward needs.

Mike Gaynes 66 Posted 05/11/2025 at 04:56:26

Laurie #65, some interesting thoughts there, but I don't think the two key ones will work.

First, Grealish may have Number 10-style skills, but he's not a Number 10 by instinct. Watch him. He automatically, naturally gravitates to the flanks. He doesn't move to the middle to receive the ball. He moves outside.

Both he and Moyes say the manager has given him complete freedom, but he still listens to his instincts and stays out of the middle.

Second, I'm pretty sure Moyes is not going to switch to a back three, because that requires speed across the backline, and we don't have it, at least not until Jarrad gets back next year.

Agree with you on Garner. His growth has been impressive.

Steve Brown 67 Posted 05/11/2025 at 05:19:57

As Mike says, Dewsbury-Hall isn't a Number 10 but is playing there due to the manager's preference. Dewsbury-Hall describes his best position as Number 8:

“I can play all positions in midfield, but I'd say my strongest point is probably in box-to-box, Number 8,” the 27-year-old said.

“But wherever the gaffer wants me, I'll do my best. That's all I'll do for the Club. Yeah, whether that's playing as most advanced (midfielder) then I will keep trying to work on my game to help do things for the team and whether it's a bit deeper, then, I'll do that.”

His ball security might not have been great in the last few matches, but it is better than Doucoure's whose main strengths were stamina and pressing.

I am not keen on Garner and Gueye together, as they both tend to sit deep right in front of a low block defence. Therefore, I would prefer to see Garner at Number 6, Dewsbury-Hall at Number 8 and Alcaraz at Number 10. Give Gueye a rest as he looks gassed right now.

Jerome Shields 68 Posted 05/11/2025 at 05:46:19

Colin #63,

I also include the Liverpool game. I thought it better to cut to the chase, rather than blame any player, and address the real problem.

Moyes won't or is unable to develop the young players that joined Everton in the Summer, though some of them with some experience of the Premier League elsewhere have been able to perform, but others who have not have had a shattering experience.

Moyes's tactics are anti-football, so a player who was coached to play football well will have a problem, even with experience.

Moyes did well to start with, but he got rid of the footballing play from midfield of attacking the centre and maybe even players with that expertise. Even now, he is not allowing players who have the expertise to play that way, playing a deeper reactive formation. Moyes Mk Il at the moment is not even as good as Moyes Mk l.

I don't know about the emoji, it may be divisive. I would prefer opinions expressed, it allows arguement to be teased out and a overall opinion developed going forward, not necessarily agreeing with mine. It is all good.

Laurie Hartley 69 Posted 05/11/2025 at 06:18:15

Mike # 66 - prior to my edit, I did have Mykolenko in a back four. I suppose I am desperate to see Dibling get a start.

I do think the midfield needs beefing up and feel pretty sure those three wouldn't be over-run or out-muscled. That means Gana and Dewsbury-Hall go to the bench.

Reluctantly, I'd drop Dibling from that line-up but keep Grealish and Ndiaye close together.

On Grealish. Pep has said Grealish can play as a Number 10. I am not a big fan of Pep but his record and technical know-how speaks for itself.

I do like Alcaraz but I am not sure he is ready at this stage to be given the responsibility as the Number 10.

So for me it boils down to, if Dewsbury-Hall or Alcaraz are not the answer as the Number 10, in what position does Jack Grealish most benefit the team?

Alan J Thompson 70 Posted 05/11/2025 at 06:59:02

I don't understand people coming onto a website about something specific and then criticizing people who do make comments, critical or otherwise.

If you disagree, then say why... Or do you just sit in the corner of the pub all on your own, maybe even by choice?

The manager comes out blaming the players and highlights one in particular but doesn't seem to think that having some say in players bought, almost total responsibility for team selection both before and during the game, analyzing opposition tactics and setting out our own playing style for this particular game in an overall style of play has anything to do with on-field performance but still picks up his pay packet.

Some thoughts by the manager might be better voiced behind closed doors and in press briefings be more general and less specific or even just the bleedin' vague, obvious one liner, "We could have done better as we did for so much of the game and come away with all 3 points". And when asked about specific players, say, Barry's miss, "The man was in a position to have the chance and if that continues then the goals will follow". Not original, but less harmful unless there is some hidden agenda.

Phil Sammon 71 Posted 05/11/2025 at 07:23:56

While I agree that Garner has become an important player, I fear he is limited, much like Gueye. You can't have two centre-mids who create so little between them.

We don't seem to have a clear plan on how to score goals at the moment.

With Grealish wanting to cut inside from the left, you have to have a left-back who wants to overlap. Mykolenko tries but I don't think he's got any attacking instinct in him.

And even if he does get into those positions, there are never players running into the box anticipating a cross. I think the only player who does do that is Alcaraz.

I'd be tempted to play Alcaraz as the attacking midfielder, Gana and Dewsbury-Hall as centre midfielders, and drop Garner… or maybe stick him at right-back which would allow O'Brien to centre-back and Keane up front.

There's lots of things we could do… but I think we all know the starting line-up will be the same as the Sunderland game. Barry or Beto the only thing unconfirmed.

Andrew Clare 72 Posted 05/11/2025 at 07:28:48

Moyes is the problem. He is unable to adapt his tactics, he is unable to make on-the-spot decisions, he is unable to use his squad to full effect, and he perseveres for far too long with the same old same old.

I just hope our owners will lose patience and make the change -- unlike Kenwright, who gave Moyes 11 years to establish our mediocrity.

Kenwright and Moyes practically finished us off as a major player in the Premier League.

Kunal Desai 73 Posted 05/11/2025 at 07:37:22

If anything is abysmal, it's your tactics and in-game management.

David Bromwell 74 Posted 05/11/2025 at 08:47:24

General consensus on here, the boot stops with the manager, so over to you, Mr Moyes.

My son in Ireland is already telling me that our new owners are sounding out Brendan Rodgers as a likely replacement...

Frying pan and fire, anybody?

Merle Urquart 75 Posted 05/11/2025 at 08:51:31

A ToffeeWebber has correctly pointed out that Alcaraz failing to pass to Beto in injury time was as bad as Barry's miss, which is correct, of course...

But l believe that is a symptom of the underlying feeling in this side: he didn't pass as he simply had zero confidence in Beto's ability to score.

Add to that benched players chomping at the bit to get game time instead of the usual failing performances from preferred individuals and we have a right shit-storm in the making.

Our wonderful manager has sown the seeds of this mess with his Wolves "l don't give a fuck what you think" cup selection and we're struggling to recover.

Déjà vu for me... it's like he's never been away. Not good enough and he never has been. The only positive is there is no Kenwright to let him get away with it.

l've a feeling the ice is beginning to thin!

Dave Abrahams 76 Posted 05/11/2025 at 09:07:17

Laurie (65),

Yes, I think Grealish has the skill and technique to play as you suggest but I don't think he has the physical ability anymore to play in that position.

He looked knackered to me in the second half v Sunderland; I know hardly any player looked good in that second half but Grealish seemed drained of any energy.

Did Everton look better in the second half of last season than they are looking now with the addition of better players?

Paul Hewitt 77 Posted 05/11/2025 at 09:09:35

David @74.

I wouldn't be against that.

Dave Abrahams 78 Posted 05/11/2025 at 09:14:57

David (74),

I heard that rumour in Liverpool yesterday.

If it becomes reality, I think Brendan will be facing a backlash from the fans and should have a good think about it before accepting the poison chalice.

Mark Murphy 79 Posted 05/11/2025 at 09:29:43

Brendan Rodgers???

Fuck off!

Phil Sammon 80 Posted 05/11/2025 at 09:52:51

Rodgers?! For the love of god, no!

There are about 10 managers in world football that would immediately divide the Everton supporters. We've already picked three of them in Benitez, Allardyce and Moyes. Can we not make it four in a row, please!!!

Jeff Armstrong 81 Posted 05/11/2025 at 10:09:50

“Your son is a nonce, Brendan Rodgers, your son is a nonce”

Just a little reminder of how we used to serenade the ex Redshite, narcissistic gobshite.

Paul Hewitt 82 Posted 05/11/2025 at 10:14:49

So I'm taking it Rodgers wouldn't be welcome.

Jeff Spiers 83 Posted 05/11/2025 at 10:21:00

No.

84 Posted 05/11/2025 at 10:39:09

The manager and players must share the responsibility of that poor 2nd half performance.

Moyes came in last season and exceeded what many thought possible in getting us to safety quicker than most of us believed possible. Also, he improved the level of football we had been seeing. But because of so many players' contracts coming to an end last season, this didn't help our close season.

We brought in Dewsbury-Hall and Grealish and, thankfully against most T/W posters' wishes, gave Michael Keane an extension to his contract.

We also brought in 3 young players for a net spend of over £70M and so far all 3 have failed to make an impression.

Many moan about the lack of subs but, when you look at what's on the bench, there is very little quality to pick from.

Many ask why he alternates between Beto and Barry, because neither have shown they deserve a run of games, so we start most games were a toss of the coin between the two is the answer.

This team lacks pace all through the team, and that is a big worry both going forward and defending.

I don't exonerate Moyes but I do think, with the awful recruitment of players this summer, he is managing with one hand tied behind his back. Hopefully the club will listen to his views regarding player purchases in January and not our pathetic recruitment team.

Brendan McLaughlin 85 Posted 05/11/2025 at 10:55:49

There's no vacancy for Rodgers and the odds (16/1) don't suggest Moyes is likely to be sacked anytime soon.

Laurie Hartley 86 Posted 05/11/2025 at 11:00:00

Dave # 76,

I think the answer to your question is Yes, we did look better at the end of last season than we do now. The difference is that, last season, the team and tactics picked themselves -- this season, he has too many options so he doesn't know what to do with them.

If Grealish isn't fit enough, get him down to the Sandhills for extra training!

Brendan Rodgers? - O mammy daddy no!

I'm going for a lie down.

Raymond Fox 87 Posted 05/11/2025 at 11:21:00

So that's it then, sack another manager.

Some of you have short memories, remember all the other managers that were so-called not good enough? Fat lot of good that did, didn't it, we are no better off now than when Martinez left.

It's a lot more to do with the players than the manager. In the Sunderland game, we played well for 30 minutes and then not so good for the rest of the game. Is that the manger's fault or the players'? They are the ones actually playing the game, so if I am blaming anybody, it's the players.

The way Sunderland have been performing, I think a draw was a good result in the circumstances, on their ground, with thousands of fanatical supporters shouting them on.

Until we can field a team that matches the top teams quality-wise, we will struggle, it's as simple as that for me. How we actually manage that, what with PSR, I don't know, we are stuck now in limbo because of thse rules.

Sam Hoare 88 Posted 05/11/2025 at 11:40:03

I don't think you can sack Moyes yet.

We are currently 14th, which is probably at the bottom end of the range most expected us to finish (between 10th and 14th). We are 13th for xPts which means we are roughly where we deserve to be.

Anyone who definitely expected we would be challenging for Europe this season was wearing blue-tinted glasses, I'm afraid.

Two things have been genuinely disappointing though from Moyes:

Firstly, the lack of development. We spent a good amount of money this summer on some young, talented players. And none of them have been well utilised or managed by Moyes. If you're going to prioritise senior players, then the results need to reflect that decision and they have not.

Secondly, the lack of reactivity. In-game management has been poor with not enough adjustments and often late or detrimental substitutions despite having a plethora of options for the first time in a while.

Monday was a great example, a game that we had lost control of after 30 minutes and yet Moyes refused to change anything substantial.

The form is also worrying. It's 1 win in 8 now; if it weren't for our good start to the season, we'd be in trouble. Forest, West Ham and Fulham all have decent teams; if they start to pick up a few results then we could easily be drawn into another relegation battle.

A loss to Fulham would certainly put real pressure on Moyes but equally a win would lift us close to the Top 10. I can't see him going anywhere till Xmas but, if we are lower than 15th, then I wouldn't be surprised to see TFG pull the trigger.

Brian Harrison 89 Posted 05/11/2025 at 11:59:30

Sam @88,

Yes, we did spend most of our budget on young players, but I am not as convinced as you are about their ability.

He has given Barry game time but the kid is miles off being a Premier League quality striker. Dibling, when selected, has looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights, despite Moyes suggesting he is doing well on the training ground. Surely, if that was true, he would be our first change.

We spent in excess of £35M on this kid and he can't even get on as a sub in some games. And the young lad we bought from Bayern didn't look anywhere near ready when he played.

Maybe Röhl might be the best of the bunch but so far injury has stopped us seeing too much of him. So I would suggest the recruitment of these youngsters has so far not proved the success they hoped for.

Rob Williamson 90 Posted 05/11/2025 at 12:15:11

I mentioned the Rodgers rumours to a good friend of mine who's a big Celtic fan. His comment?

“He is an untrustworthy, egotistical, hubristic, lying sociopath. I'm glad to see the back of him.”

I've told him he should get off the fence!

Dale Self 91 Posted 05/11/2025 at 12:21:36

Without creating a distraction for anti-stats or anti-analytics, can someone define xPts and how it is derived?

And I think Phil 71 and Kieran are right. It should be Dewsbury-Hall with either Gana or Garner. Dewsbury-Hall has the vision but not the possession skill required at the Number 10 position.

Sam Hoare 92 Posted 05/11/2025 at 12:25:44

Brian @89, perhaps these younger players turn out to be poor but it's very hard to know without giving them some proper time.

Very few if any youngster is going to come to a new league like the Premier League and shine immediately. That's why they need development and confidence boosting to reach their potential; the opposite of what has happened so far.

I think there is a good chance that we will look back on the summer as a good window in years to come but that chance lessens with every month they are kept on the bench.

I've no idea why he didn't bring on Aznou for Mykolenko (who was playing terribly) when we were 2-0 down against Spurs.

Or why he didn't bring on Dibling instead of McNeil against Sunderland when we were crying out for someone who could transition the ball.

Sam Hoare 93 Posted 05/11/2025 at 12:27:56

Dale @91

Match Simulation: Using the xG values for every shot taken by both teams in a match, a computer model simulates the match thousands of times (eg, 10,000 times). For each simulation, a random number is generated for every shot to determine, based on its xG probability, whether it results in a goal or not. This process generates a wide range of possible scorelines and, consequently, win, draw, or loss outcomes.

Probability and Formula Application: From these thousands of simulations, the model determines the overall probability of a win, a draw, and a loss for each team. These probabilities are then plugged into a simple formula to determine the expected points for that match: xPts = (Probability of Win × 3) + (Probability of Draw × 1) + (Probability of Loss × 0)

For example, if a team has a 50% chance of winning, a 30% chance of drawing, and a 20% chance of losing based on the simulations, their xPts for that match would be:

xPts = (0.50 × 3) + (0.30 × 1) + (0.20 × 0) = 1.5 + 0.3 + 0 = 1.8 points

Dale Self 94 Posted 05/11/2025 at 12:33:46

Nice breakdown Sam, thank you!

And good stuff Alan 70!

Jerome Shields 95 Posted 05/11/2025 at 12:46:04

Sam, that is exactly it.

After you are signed, the manager says he needs 10 players.

Thrown on in a Carabao League Cup match with other young players in a negative formation. Slaughtered by a poor team that had not won a game. Becomes obvious that the manager plays old pros and will only play youth if he has no choice.

Asked to play as a target man, when all your training before Everton is about beating the defender, passing, and fast ball progression. Even told previously a target man is old hat.

Told publicly you are not up to the first team standard. Asked to play reactive football and chase after defenders. Blamed publicly for a team's performance. Coached to play negatively, with no initiative.

Getting fan abuse from the sidelines, having followed the manager's instructions.

Listen to a manager blame the players for team performance, when you hear players question the manager's ability on the training group and in the dressing room.

What development? Time to look elsewhere, as they are and will be doing.

Mike Owen 97 Posted 05/11/2025 at 13:13:39

Sam 93, Yer wha?

Mike Powell 98 Posted 05/11/2025 at 13:40:56

Brendan Rodgers... What The Fuck! It was bad enough when the Spanish waiter took over, I was almost done with them.

If Rodgers came in, I think it will send me over the edge, but we do need someone to replace Moyes at the end of the season.

John Williams 99 Posted 05/11/2025 at 13:42:44

Jerome,

Whatever you are taking, I suggest you come off it.

It will be bad for your health.

Christy Ring 100 Posted 05/11/2025 at 14:51:15

The Rodgers link is total nonsense in my opinion