Manchester United owners ‘are the real villians’, not Man City’s who were ‘punished for ambition’ | OneFootball

Can the Premier League survive this? Is there any point watching until it’s sorted? And sod Man City’s owners – INEOS should be ashamed.

Send your thoughts to theeditor@football365.com.

• Cheating (noun): the act of behaving dishonestly to get what you want, especially by breaking rules in games, tests, or relationships.

An independent panel have found Manchester City guilty of breaking the rules of the competition(s) they were in, a way that seems to match the above definition.

On top of this, at least 34 of the charges of which they were guilty relate to obstructing or failing to assist the Premier League’s investigation. So not cheating, but covering up the cheating and making it very difficult to prove that in fact, yes, City have been cheating. We’ll need to see what the wording is in the final judgement but City are not going to come out of this with their reputation intact. Extra marks for dishonesty.

I understand Joe Hart’s reaction, he must be living with some serious cognitive dissonance right now and we are talking about sustained financial doping not on field cheating. But City won that first title on goal difference, are we saying that cooking the books had no effect on this whatsoever?

And as for City fighting the so called “Red Cartel” (plus Chelsea and Spurs one assumes), that’s fine but don’t pretend City are Robin Hood in this scenario. City’s owners came in with a sportswashing agenda and boy did they nearly achieve it with some of that Pep era stuff. The very fact that people are now questioning whether the Premier League will water down sanctions due to government pressure shows you exactly how serious and ridiculous this has gotten for what is essentially 22 overgrown boys chasing a ball around a field.

As for City spending their own money well they haven’t have they? They’ve spent their money of a nation state. Everything you have earned since they took over has been a product of financial skulduggery. I see comparisons to United being allowed to operate £1B in debt, but that is equally the owners debt. Without the respective owners both teams probably follow opposite trajectories. I’m more than happy for us to go down that path from now, as would almost all other United fans.

We’ll probably never be able to properly quantify the effect City’s cheating has actually had but it doesn’t matter because the level of this deception is so mind bogglingly huge (and you suspect there are further revelations to come) that Pandora’s box is well and truly open.

Forget the titles or whether we should even count what happened over the last decade or so, I’m really struggling to see how the Premier League – i.e. all the other clubs who have not even been accused of cheating on this scale – actually survives this. What exactly is the point in watching at all until this is completely resolved? And what will be left at the end of it?

Maybe some light shaming is in order after all, eh? Ashmundo

I don’t remember Man City fans complaining about PSR, closed shops or the Premier League being a “cartel” when they thought they were legitimately part of that cartel.

I certainly don’t remember them campaigning for Newcastle or Villa to be allowed to spend more freely so they could compete with them.

It all feels a little hypocritical to suddenly discover the injustice of the system now it’s perceived to be working against you — and then use that injustice as justification for breaking the very rules you’re complaining about. Mark, Birmingham (Question – Will my Oasis tickets to the Etihad still be valid if they are bankrupt?)

Posh b*stards and young heroes Dear Ed,

Follow up in what to do about City. Just strip them of titles in that period, reallocate the trophies and correct the record. Then draw a line under the issue. If clubs wish to sue City in court for lost revenue, then we all win. Man City can slowly fade away and pay teams they sank.

Pep’s old mention of legends like Gerrard or Kane highlights a deep cultural wound. The two represented the archetype of the loyal, working-class domestic hero—players who carried the weight of their local communities and traditional fanbases on their shoulders. When City players mocked the infamous 2014 slip during their title celebrations, it wasn’t just a dig at a rival; to many, it felt like a global corporate machine actively mocking the tragic heartbreak of a traditional, organic football institution like Liverpool or Arsenal or Manchester United. It highlighted a shift where the romanticism of the local hero was replaced by the cold, ruthless efficiency of a manufactured consent.

If the independent commission uses a modern-day points deduction to blow up the club, the ultimate irony is complete. The elite executives who let the system get out of hand will walk away with their consulting fees and bonuses intact. The billionaire owners will simply pivot their global portfolios. Meanwhile, the young Domestic Players—English lads from local academies—who grew up dreaming of nothing but playing top-flight football—will be the ones forced to play through the mud of a penalized season or forced relegation, holding the bag for an elite-level boardroom game they never invited.

It is a bleak, uncompromising reality of modern football: the rules are written by the elite, the wealth is extracted by the elite, and when the system breaks, the local working-class talent is left to clean up the mess. Dan McG LFC

Looking forward to the fire sale Dear Editor,

So punishments for Man City could be enormous. Assuming the independent body dont go too overboard to the point Man City can appeal it as being too harsh and disproportionate… I am looking forward to the next steps and am hoping there will be a fire sale of high-earning players.

I saw Gabby Agbonlahor suggest Liverpool should be sniffing around Semenyo and O’Reilly which are two good shouts if they are at all interested. Instead I think we should be looking at Josko Gvardiol – a great talent from the Red Bull system which has already provided Liverpool with Szobo, Konate and er Naby Keita. He’s comfortable as a CB or LB so effectively a left footed Araujo and doesnt turn 25 until January so there’s a few good years ahead of him too.

It also came to light he was a Reds fan as a child which always helps but he also had that unquantifiable commodity of “he knows the league”. If City become in need to shift a few players I do think its Josko Liverpool should be looking at!

Also, quick mention for the AFC Wimbledon fans at Cambridge on Saturday – their “we’re coming for you, we’re coming for you, Manchester City, we’re coming for you” was very good. YNWA, Adam (Perhaps there’s a feature for player reallocation or have I missed it?)

Opinions If I’ve learned anything over the last 10 years (and I try not to) it’s that the internet loves a bad guy. The maelstrom of having a Bonafide-definitely-is-a-bad-guy, bad guy grows bigger by the day. Add in the most popular sport in the world with one of the most successful clubs in the world and 99% of the world are clambering over each other to add the next escalated punishment for the bad guy.  We’re no more than 3 mailboxes away from someone demanding we send in the SAS. Where and why? Hardly matters.

The 1% will counter this Golgothan of virtual lynching with an extreme contrarian opinion.

And so in the last few days I heard someone on the radio claiming that City pushing back against the protectionist rules of the red cartel was analogous to the suffragette movement, a fella in the comments suggesting that players who signed for City after the charges should be banned as collaborators and then Ernie in the mailbox suggesting all fans should be compensated because the entire sport is tainted.

Personally, I’m sticking with my prediction that the punishment will exactly enough for City and it’s fans to claim “harsh” and for the rest of the world to claim “not enough”. The perfect solution for all involved is that everyone ends up unhappy.

Some other random thoughts on the topic.

I think it’s probably true that City would’ve got where they are eventually without the cheating. It’s also true that watching Pep operate with wrong full backs and a comedy ‘keeper for a bit longer would’ve been fun. I suspect a little bit of the anger from fans of other big clubs is not *just* because City spent all the money, but that they spent it well.

Anyhoo – probably enough opinions on City for one week. Although I know that won’t stop them coming.

I’ll leave you with the opinion of one of the older Man City fans.

“I just want to have a laugh with my mates on a Saturday afternoon – I don’t care which league we’re in.” Jeremy Aves

Fan the flames If there’s one thing all sides can agree upon, it’s that this whole debacle has taken way too long. Much of that is on City, as they’ve dragged their heels and held up proceedings as much as possible. The noises coming out of them suggest that approach isn’t going to change anytime soon.

Here’s where the fans of the other 19 clubs can step up. Leave the stadium empty for the first five minutes so the cameras show empty stands at kick off. Unveil banners and tifos calling them out as cheats. Chant relentlessly for 90 minutes. Do everything possible so that the broadcasters absolutely cannot ignore what they’ve done. Do it hard enough and for long enough and we reach the point that their position in the league becomes untenable. Maybe even to the point that even their owners realise the jig is up.

Fortunately, their first game is at Anfield, and if there’s one set of supporters that specialise in some self righteous grandstanding from atop their moral high horses, it’s them. Lewis, Busby Way

Pass the tinfoil hat Watching all the chaos around the Manchester City news unfold, and taking in oh so many japes saying that Everton should be docked 10 points as a result, it’s got me thinking….

It was February 2023 when the charges were first brought forward and left football fans wondering for over two and half years if we would ever get to hear a verdict or if it would be our grandkids who would hear it. Meanwhile Everton, Forest and Leicester were instantly charged for failure to comply with financial rules whilst Chelsea were handed the most pitiful of fines (by their standards) because they ‘fessed up to being cheats.  Andy Burnham – himself a staunch Everton fan and advocate of drinking alcohol in the stands (a terrible idea, without question) – has had his feet under the table at number 10 for all of 5 minutes and now suddenly, we have an answer to the investigation.

Given all the talk and rumours of how this would affect relations between Saudi Arabia and the UK  as a possible cause for the delays, you don’t think Andy had enough of his beloved club being mocked and pulled a few strings to get the verdict announced….do you?!?

Naaaah, highly doubt it.  Bit of a coincidence though, innit? Jeff G, West Brom Villan (Tongue planted firmly in cheek whilst I sit back and wait another 4-5 years for the punishment to be unveiled, appealed against and ultimately turned into something disappointing)

FFP and Man City are as bad as each other I’ve got to start with (low bar to clear) saying Tuesday morning’s Mailbox was slightly less deranged on City than it has been, a little more nuanced. We’ve taken the step from ‘we can debate whether the rules are fair…they cheated’  to ‘the rules probably aren’t fair but they cheated and the alternative is an unlimited free for all’.

I’m sick of it. It’s not the alternative. I’m a Newcastle fan so not impartial, (nobody are impartial though are they) and don’t want to win the way City did. I mean look what has happened to us, we clearly aren’t. But I also don’t want a system where nobody can ever consistently challenge the Red Cartel / maybe Chelsea, City. Boring as hell. It’s why I also smile when someone tells me they support Leicester, not for where they are now but what they did.

What people don’t realise is if one system is a City/Newcastle dominated boring 2 horse-race, the current system that allows you to grow only through revenue (largely on field success) but you can’t gain continued success is as rigged as the first option. There should be a spending cap as I’ve stated again and again. THAT is the middle ground and the alternative. Your Coventry’s & others still won’t be able to fully compete, but at least at the top of the table suddenly there’s genuinely 6-8 teams who could compete. Genuine intrigue beyond a max 2-3 horse race, teams building teams around iconic players (Bruno G, Rodgers,etc) and investing well can reach the mountaintop. Hell maybe in time even your Brighton’s etc could be in the mix! Not you Spurs. Crucially under these rules, which would cover salaries too, these clubs could stay there…

Before anyone starts questioning the workability of this, all approaches including the existing ones have huge issues. Likewise if City were to circumvent this I’d support the harshest possible punishment as they’d crucially be cheating in a level playing field for once. At this point anyone who suggests the only options are unlimited spend or the current rules are being disingenuous. I welcome any other ideas beyond the tired arguments that Newcastle, City and Villa fans only want unlimited spending, but something has to change. Tarqs, NUFC

The protestations of those connected to Manchester City are part laughable and part sickening.

Let’s start with S from Manchester in the last mailbox. He claims that poor little City had to cheat to compete with the financial superpowers that existed in the PL. He seems to not even know the history of his own club, never mind the history of financial fair play rules.

First, let’s take a moment to remember that the 52,500 seat stadium that City currently occupy was not paid for by them. It was paid for by a combination of the local counsel, Sport England, taxpayer money, and National Lottery money. It was supposed to be a ‘legacy’ stadium of the Commonwealth Games but instead was basically gifted to the football club for them to rapaciously make money off in return for paying for its upkeep. Whilst it might be odious that multi-billionaire Sir Ratcliffe suggests the taxpayer foot the bill for his new circus tent, there is some precedent, in that his local rivals received the same.

In the same period that City benefitted from their essentially free stadium, clubs like Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, etc., have all had to pay their own way. City have already had a vast leg-up that no one else other than West Ham have received. To suggest that City have been hard done by compared to their previously more successful counterparts is an offensive joke to everyone in the UK whose tax money contributed to City’s stadium.

Second, let’s get some facts right about the timeline. Abu Dhabi purchased City in 2008, immediately engaging in the kind of spending not seen since the start of the Roman Empire. They absolutely blew everyone away in transfer fees. Champs League qualification was first achieved in 2011 and a first league title came in 2012. FFP regs (as they were) received approval in 2009 from UEFA, however, they were not applied by UEFA until the 2011-12 season. Quick recap for the slow City fan – that’s AFTER City had already blown hundreds of millions on players and were in the CL. The first year of the regs City won the PL anyway.

Of course, City were happily cheating the UEFA rules from the outset (presumably again because they ‘had’ to overcome the financial handicap suffered by playing in their free gift of a stadium) and paid 30m to UEFA for their breach.

FFP first started to be applied in the PL in 2013-2014 and this allowed for 105m of loss across three seasons. In this season City were an established CL club and won the PL for the second time. In summary, the idea that City had to cheat to get on terms with bigger clubs is utter b***cks. City were already a huge club in terms of transfer and wage spending, had been gifted a stadium, were maximizing the revenues it could achieve, and were a ‘top’ club on the pitch. City wanted to continue to break the rules so that they could entrench their position and win the CL. Nothing else other than pure greed drove the decision making. This was most certainly not an underdog story where City tried to level out a massively uneven pitch a little bit.

Responses from the like of Mancini (“it’s not my problem”) and Rodri (“we won on the pitch shoulder to shoulder”) are a mixture of disgusting and blatantly stupid. Mancini trying to walk away from cheating that he participated in by having two employment contracts and Rodri ignoring that he was able to win on the pitch because he and his teammates were together due to the buckets of illegal cash is offensive to everyone else in the game.

Assuming the 114 verdict sticks I think the following punishments are justified: (i) removal of all titles won since first evidence of cheating was discovered. All titles will remain vacated because it’s impossible to say what results would have been if City were not the City we saw (this should happen with all of Chelsea’s titles too). It will be a huge stain on English football forever but perhaps will serve as a reminder in decades to come; (ii) City should be fined the amount of money they wrongly fed into the club. The PL should administer this money as a fund to recompense all those fans who were cheated out of fair experiences. Starting with fans who traveled to cup finals / semis etc. only to suffer a rigged game; (iii) I don’t think City can be summarily relegated but a points deduction that does the same thing is appropriate. Minus 114 points will make the point nicely; and (iv) until the City owners sell the club to a wholly unrelated party, City should not be allowed back in the PL, should be under an incoming transfer ban, and should have all financial / accounting activity monitored and approved by UEFA and PL officials.

I anticipate that this will create open season for legal action by other clubs, sponsors, and players against City – and rightly so. City defrauded all those participants of greater financial success due to systematic and intentional rule breaking.

The punishment handed out to Chelsea was a disgrace. It’s time for the PL and UEFA to demonstrate that being caught in this kind of cheating will result in annihilation. It’s the only way to vaguely restore any credibility in the PL, football in England, and protect the meaning of sport. The reputational damage to athletics and cycling (for example) due to drug offending has caused those sports almost irreparable harm. English football will go the same way, in part because of the insult to sport that was Chelsea’s punishment, but also now if City’s conduct is not stamped on in the harshest of ways. The only way to stop offending like this is to make punishment so draconian people are petrified to do it.

I would also amend the financial rules to allow owners to invest as much money as they want in a sustainable way. I would run it on a similar basis to capital adequacy regulations imposed on banks. If an owner wants to drop 5 billion a year on transfers and wages that’s up to them, however, they have to deposit a defined amount to cover the future risk of their largesse to ensure the club will survive even if not in CL / not in Europe / relegated / whatever. To be clear, however, thinking that the financial fair play rules could be improved does not suggest for a second that there is a ‘right’ for anyone to go and break the rules that currently exist. Josh, AFC

It’s their money – let them spend it Next season, once the dust settles, I’m pretty confident Manchester City will be able to rise above the noise and look back proudly on the clean money that is rolling in season after season. Money they truly deserve and can spend however they like.

Premier League parachute payments. David, Salford

A perfectly sensible Man Utd view Dear football365

Utd fan here taking time out on this miserably wet Tuesday to write about this City situation.

Am I the only one who thinks that City and their owners are being punished for their ambition? I look at our own owners and I know whos’s (whose?) owners id rather have. Our combination or debt loving Americans owners and a cut cutting meglomaniaic are robbing, thieving unambitious scoundrels.

Citys, on the other hand, have had to, as you say, break into a cartel to challenge the elite and status quo. They have invested their own money without taking anything out. Now I get that there were rules in place they broke but ultimately my take is that those rules were wrong and designed to keep the same top 4 in place. Baring that in mind, again as a United fan, I please leniency for city and BEG the FA, premier league or whoever to look into what has been done to my club – they are the real villians not citys owners

Regards Valeviews Number 6

What do we want? I’m not one for all that ‘every challenge is an opportunity’ nonsense – that way lies ice baths, Jake Humphreys’ A-levels, Andros Townsend’s raw steak for lunch, Neville’s mini-retirements, etc. That said, recent years have seen big things happen in football where we’ve had a chance to see whether the point of the thing is an actual competition – where people, you know, compete – or an exercise in making money.

We all pretend it’s both, but it’s not really is it? The Glazers don’t know a football from a hole in the ground; Tottenham are a posh pub team, something for a bit of fun in between NFL games and Harry Styles shows. Whatever Chelsea are, who knows, but athletic excellence is not what they’re interested in.

When the super league was announced, the remaining prem teams could have resigned from the premier league and applied to rejoin the EFL. If the others wanted to stay in their English bubble while playing friendlies in Riyadh at 4pm on a Tuesday – great, but you’re all stuck playing each other; if they want in to English football, ditch the SL, start sharing gate receipts again, £100m deposit each that is only repaid in 10 years if there’s no more threats to leave.

Instead – they said, ooh sorry, we won’t do that again. Promise. And Neville stopped ranting on the TV channel that was about to collapse – just a coincidence – and everyone went back to normal.

Or when the world cup camel’s back was finally broken this summer: an opportunity to right some of FIFA’s wrongs was available. A 48-team world cup is too big; back to 32 please. No more ad breaks in the middle of the half; no more peace prizes, no more despotic overturning of red cards, no more bidding process chicanery and gerrymandering to ‘award’ the competition to rich nations with no interest in the game. Put FIFA’s stated aims – promotion of anti-racism, human rights, gay rights, women’s rights – front and centre and stand up for them this time. Do this, and yes, Gianni, we’ll let you keep your job.

Instead – the only thing we care about is whether we get to stick Infantino in the wicker man or not. We won’t, and we’ll grumble about it, but we’ll stop caring as soon as there’s another VAR thing to get het up about.

And Israel v Ireland – a real chance here to use a high-profile platform to communicate with people about what’s happening, how they can actually help Gaza in a tangible way, how they can find out more information, how they can learn more. What have we actually done? Piss and moan on social media and hound the Irish players who wanted to play for their country, because the only important thing was cancelling the fixture to avoid complicated, conflicting emotions around the team.

And now: City’s 114 chickens are coming home to roost. The opportunity we have is to talk properly about why we want financial rules in football; what we want them to do. I see lots of talk here about protecting clubs from themselves in ways that Leeds were not, for example. Those of us of a certain age may remember Leeds winning the last title before the prem began, in 1992, a whole 2 years after being promoted from Division 2. Seems to me this ‘leap’ used to be much more common (Leicester, Blackburn, Forest, Villa, Ipswich, Spurs, etc) than clubs going out of business. Who are we really protecting at the moment?

And instead of this conversation, our supposed desire to see clubs avoid financial ruin means we want City on the pyre immediately, demoted to division 4, with all their players sold off and a transfer ban meaning David Oldfield and Paul Lake are back in the squad next season.

Obviously nobody will write in saying the best thing for the sport is the status quo being maintained at all costs. Nobody wants to say publicly that Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal should forever be the only clubs who win anything – even those who think this is the natural order of things, and that the first 100 or so years of the sport were just a sort of filing exercise while we found out who our organic overlords should be for the next century.

But what do we actually want from this sport? Arsene Wenger can draw his mad offside lines wherever he wants, but does he actually understand why we have the law in the first place? Handball can be defined by whether or not a defender is pretending to be a penguin if we really want, but what is the point of preventing players from using their hands – is it to avoid the sport turning into rugby, or are we just offended at the sight of a shot smashing into someone’s elbow from 6 feet away?

If ruin of clubs is what we’re worried about, let’s look at why that happens – Bury, Sheffield Wednesday, Charlton, Tottenham – and stop that at its root. If we want football to be ‘fair’ and genuinely competitive for all 92 sides, front to back – let’s see what has allowed that to happen in the past. If we want things to change as little as possible; let’s keep doing exactly what we’re doing. But this mailbox is full of complaining every day of the week, are we really happy with this? Neil Raines